New Oven delivered, refused installation

Let me ask a slightly different question then.

The Cooker is " plugged " into the kitchen ring then?
Our regulations suggest any item which is not portable and over 2kW should not be plugged into the ring final as a general rule for domestic we only use 13A plugs although we have 16, 32, 63 amp plugs they are rarely used with domestic over 13A normally wired direct to what we now call a consumer unit (distribution unit type tested)
What I find hard to understand is how you could wire a modern UK kitchen on a 32 amp ring.
You must have other dedicated circuits?
Yes as said in theroy dish washer, tumble drier, washing machine, oven, hob, all will have dedicated circuits, In practice only oven and hob use dedicated circuits.
My stove is plugged into a Nema 14 50 ( but protected by a 40 amp breaker because that was the original breaker and this is acceptable by the CEC rules ).
Alternatively I could have hard wired it to the 40 amp CB with AWG 8 and removed the factory plug.
As said we don't have standard plugs in domestic over 13A and we have a single phase not split phase or three phase in domestic property.
Also on their own circuits are my fridge ( dedicated circuit rules for this appliance as well as microwave and dish washer ).
As said your system is very different.
32 amps at 240 volts is a considerable amount of power mind you.....
( can I assume you also have a rule to the effect of no more than 80% load factor on a circuit there too? ).
Because we use a standard three phase or split phase step down transformer we also have a more standardised supply system it is very rare to take more than one phase into any house and we always have a neutral at earth polarity. With the USA system not sure if the same with Canada they have more earthing systems than we do in the UK and in some cases use delta supply transformers with a centre tap on one winding. This is unknown of in the UK all our supplies are from star wound or single phase transformers.

We are harmonised with Europe except for types of plug used and everything except for building site supply is 230 volt single phase or 400 volt three phase there are one or two exceptions for mines and quarries but the voltage and earthing is far more universal than in the USA. We got rid of our DC supplies well before USA and the higher voltage means less amps so less fires as a result of electric power.

I worked with USA systems in Algeria and Hong Kong and they scared the hell out of me. IT earth system in UK is only ever used for shaver supply. We have never use the USA wire gauge even before we went metric we did not use that system. AWG 8 means nothing to us. Before metric we used 7/0.029 which was 7 cores at 0.029 inches diameter with metric we went to cross sectional area rather than diameter in both cases simple maths can work out current carrying capacity we don't need a set of tables to convert the code into real sizes. We don't use 8.36mm² cable and when the number goes bigger it carries more current the idea of numbering in reverse seems alien to us.

In the UK nearly every domestic appliance other than cookers can be plugged into a 13A socket. As said we always use dedicated circuits for immersion heater, and should use dedicated circuits for a lot more but in an emergency every thing could be simply plugged in. And the fuse in the plug means NEMA 1 to 23 is simply not required. The Commando Industrial Plugs and Sockets are coloured for voltage and phases and are used in industrial premises but the only one seen by the man in the street is the 16A blue one used for caravans.

There is a 2A, 5A, and 15A socket but they are just historic a remnant from the past. The only reversible plug and socket is for shavers only.

And as said nothing about this has anything to do with the problem in question. Once we had facts it was plain the guy was completely out of order not installing the cooker.
 
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Rubbish, there is no such regulation.
Winston - given your perpetual struggle to follow discussions here I would suggest that you do not exacerbate your problems by wilful or careless misreading.

Eric did not say that there was such a regulation, he said the regulations suggest it. And they do, sort of. That the regulations contain a suggestion can not be in doubt - it is there on p453. And that it is a suggestion not a regulation is also not in doubt, and is what Eric said.


It is a guide only but not by the IET or any regulator.
And you will be able to show, will you, that your notion that the IET have no involvement with the Wiring Regulations is not another of your barking mad ones?


Manufacturers don't recognise it either and always supply fixed appliances such as washing machines, dryers etc with BS1363 plugs.
1) They have no choice.

2) The suggestion in the regulations does not refer to washing machines or dryers.

3) Radials.
 
I am sorry if I have asked some questions that are off topic.

I am here because I have a keen interest in your earthing systems and P&C.
 
Not sure what P&C is!

Start a new topic. It will be interesting to compare differences between ours and your wiring!
 
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Not sure what P&C is!

Start a new topic. It will be interesting to compare differences between ours and your wiring!

Two peoples separated by a common language ha ha.

P&C = protection and control, how and when things trip and the specifications and ratings of the devices used.
 
Hi All

Thanks for the responses.

I guess my only thing to ask now is yes or no, would you say that it's ok to install this ourselves?

The old oven worked perfectly fine there, and she will only likely be using the oven and maybe 1 or 2 hotplates at a time.
 
I guess my only thing to ask now is yes or no, would you say that it's ok to install this ourselves? ... The old oven worked perfectly fine there, and she will only likely be using the oven and maybe 1 or 2 hotplates at a time.
If you are asking in relation to the reason that 'they' refused to install it, the difference between 30A and 32A is irrelevant - so, if that is the only alleged 'problem', then it would be fine for it to be installed. Indeed, in terms of 'safety', I suppose that it is theoretically fractionally 'safer' with a 30A fuse than a 32A one!

Kind Regards, John
 
I guess my only thing to ask now is yes or no, would you say that it's ok to install this ourselves?
.

In reponse to this question then the answer is yes, providing you follow the manufacturers instructions regarding installation. Do ask if you have any questions.
Most contributors on here will be sympathetic - this is supposed to be a forum for DIYers!!
 
I suppose that it is theoretically fractionally 'safer' with a 30A fuse than a 32A one!
But in practice a 30A fuse will almost certainly be a BS 3036.
Good point - but is sounds as if the installers would probably have 'accepted' a 32A BS3036 fuse (if such a thing existed) and, in some senses, a 30A 3036 is fractionally 'safer' than that!

Kind Regards, John
 
Indeed - no doubt even one of these as the sole device:

screenshot_426.jpg
 
I guess my only thing to ask now is yes or no, would you say that it's ok to install this ourselves?
As others have said, yes.

However, I would make a point of not letting them off. I'd write to them stating that the reason for non-installation is spurious and give them (say) 7 days to return and complete their part of the contract. Add that if they fail to do so in that time, or make acceptable arrangements, you will employ a third party and recover the costs from them.

Throw in that anyone competent to make such a decision as to suitability of supply would recognise that a 30A fuse and 32A MCB are for practical purposes equivalent in supply capacity, and therefore you are concerned that they are employing staff to perform electrical work who are not competent to do so. As such, they may be guilty of fraud and/or H&S offences.
That latter bit should get their attention, and suddenly their customer services bods should be doing everything they can to avoid you dropping them in the smelly brown stuff.


If they get away with such carp then they'll carry on doing it. They'll only stop it if enough people make it expensive for them to do so - by making them send someone round a second time to finish the job.
 

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