New shower cable

[ban-all-sheds]

Well - whatever the reasons, he's left you with an appliance drawing 35A on a circuit fused at 30A, which doesn't indicate a high level of competence to me.

Also, what did he do about RCD protection when he replaced the shower cable?

 

[roundthebend]

Ah yes, RCD. I meant to ask about that.

The CU has an ON/OFF breaker.

What else is required with the installation of this new cable?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It should be RCD protected.

1) Shower manufacturers usually stipulate one.

2) Even if they don't the Wiring Regulations mandate RCD protection for bathroom circuits, and if your electrician was competent he would have known that.

If he issued an EIC for the new shower circuit it's false.

 

[roundthebend]

We never got any certificate/paperwork, but then I haven't paid him yet!

Could it be that he's thinking that a simple replacement of the cable is not something that needs to be certified/notified/regulated etc? But, changing fuses would require that and therefore it becomes a bigger and more expensive job?

He came round this morning to run the shower and see for himself that the problem still existed. We left him to do that and I guess I'll speak to him later. I better prepare myself to sack him!

Any thoughts on the payment I need to give him for the work he's done so far? I think in fairness, I should pay for the cable because it is a necessary upgrade and maybe a little for his labour to install it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Could it be that he's thinking that a simple replacement of the cable is not something that needs to be certified/notified/regulated etc?

If he is then that's yet another demonstration of his ignorance.

Any thoughts on the payment I need to give him for the work he's done so far? I think in fairness, I should pay for the cable because it is a necessary upgrade and maybe a little for his labour to install it.

Best canvass the opinions of the sparkies here...

 

[LiamPope]

Just playing devil's advocate . To give your mate the benefit of the doubt - he may have been trying to do you a favour and save you money by doing the minimum possible to fix your problem. He's banked on the cable overheating being the source of the smell and upgraded it. This work would then have to be denied at house selling time if it was called into question! You shouldn't be paying any more than beer money for this strictly off the books for a mate bodge!

Still extremely dodgy practice, in fact illegal! If he's passed exams recently he should without a doubt know that replacing that shower circuit means it now must be RCD protected and main and supplementary bonding be updated as appropriate. Other fittings on the circuit, i.e. the pull cord switch need to be fit for purpose. Finally the work must be tested and certified, and notified via his scheme.

Tell him you need the work done properly, and that of course you will be prepared to pay for it.

Liam

 

[bongos]

Tell him you need the work done properly, and that of course you will be prepared to pay for it.

I suppose you could also ask him what would need to be done to make it comply with 17th edition & part P of building regs, stating you would like it doing properly and are happy to pay for a safe, legal, appropriate install. If you quiz him a little then you will quickly know from what you've learnt on here whether he knows his stuff.

If he still thinks the work is done properly then it's time to ask round family/friends for reliable electricians...

 

[roundthebend]

UPDATE

I came home tonight having not heard from the electrician. Wife hasn't heard either.

Our fuse board cover has been cut so that an MCB can be fitted. The MCB says WYLEX B40 on it.

The pull cord switch hasn't been replaced.

Is the MCB good enough or is an RCD required also?

I'm still concerned that our CU might not cope with the high current draw from the shower. Where before the fuse was protecting it a little, a 40A breaker is going to give less protection isn't it?

 

[roundthebend]

Here's a pic of the CU:

Untitled

• roundthebend
• 5 May 2009
• 1

 

[bongos]

Our fuse board cover has been cut so that an MCB can be fitted. The MCB says WYLEX B40 on it.

The pull cord switch hasn't been replaced.

Is the MCB good enough or is an RCD required also?

I'm still concerned that our CU might not cope with the high current draw from the shower. Where before the fuse was protecting it a little, a 40A breaker is going to give less protection isn't it?

If you had a 30A overcurrent device before and now have a 40A overcurrent device then as you stated you have a high current needed to trip the 'MCB'. It's a push in unit which are sometimes used instead of fuses but is not a proper din rail mounted unit (not possible in your fusebox).

You say the fuseboard has been cut? Is that picture how it currently looks? If so then it is unacceptable to leave it in that condition. Exposed conductive parts are on show with no protection. As stated you have no RCD protection, which will most likely be a requirement of the MI for the shower and is a requirement of all new circuits in bathrooms.

If I were you i'd be turning the shower off and not using it until you've had a competent spark round to check out the work that has been carried out. It would also be a good time to get the fuseboard updated! Many of the older style fuseboards are not built to take more than a 30A fuse - I don't know enough about this particular board to say if this is the case here. I'll bow down to the experts on the site as I am not a spark myself.

OOI have you had a look in the shower pull switch? It may be the 'fishy' smell is coming from there - i'd still get somone round to check the installation though...

 

[roundthebend]

To clarify, the fusebox has a cover which screws on top of what you see in that photo. Because the MCB is bulkier the cover has had to have a rectangle cut out of it to let the MCB fit. If that makes sense.

I haven't looked inside the pull cord switch. I'm worried it could be a bit dangerous getting my fingers in there. I guess I should just keep my fingers and metal objects out! Will it say on it what rating it is?

Do I need a separate RCD? Where would that go? In the bathroom, or next to the CU?

 

[bongos]

To clarify, the fusebox has a cover which screws on top of what you see in that photo. Because the MCB is bulkier the cover has had to have a rectangle cut out of it to let the MCB fit. If that makes sense.

It does - if i'd looked closer I would have seen that. However, cutting the corner out of the fuse cover to get it back on is poor workmanship.

I haven't looked inside the pull cord switch. I'm worried it could be a bit dangerous getting my fingers in there. I guess I should just keep my fingers and metal objects out! Will it say on it what rating it is?

You would isolate it and check with a multimeter before having a good poke around but if you're not happy doing this then don't do it. Better safe than sorry - and anyway that's what you're paying your mate for!

Do I need a separate RCD? Where would that go? In the bathroom, or next to the CU?

Ideally you would have the CU replaced with a new one containing RCDs & MCBs or RCBO (both functions combined in one unit). If this isn't an option then the best idea would be to use Henley blocks to split the main tails then have a separate mini CU just for the shower (with a 40A MCB/30mA RCD). This would avoid the existing fuseways being overloaded. But you would also have to install an isolator after the meter and before the tail split to comply with existing regs and allow you isolate the entire system at one point (it would be more prudent to have the new CU, IMO).

 

[bongos]

Roundthebend, I've just re-read this thread and noticed i'm repeating other peoples earlier comments/suggestions and we're going round in circles...

 

[roundthebend]

OK, well he hasn't called me this evening to tell me what he's done or to ask for payment. Something doesn't seem right.

We're in a situation now where we want to try and preserve our friendship with him and his family, but we need to question the quality of his work.

We don't think we can do that easily. To be honest, I see no reason to believe that anyone commenting on this thread is more qualified than our friend. And none of you have seen the installation in question, so I should really trust him as the professional. However, I've asked specific questions here and the answers would suggest that his work isn't up to the required standard.

So, should I get another electrician to come and check? Should I be expecting to pay a fee for that?

 

[tSpark]

changing the subject slightly
why is your cooker fuse removed?