New Zealand

[transam]

Blimey woman campaign for the right to have boxing and weightlifting included into the olympics

it gets granted and than a load of blokes dressed up as woman (?)

come waltzing into the caper

what about that zimbwian runner
Casta wats her name

she has been banned from competing yet some bloke gets included

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The athlete in question is not a female.

The only point at issue is if they are entitled to compete in womens events, and if it is fair.

For the purposes of the Olympic competition, she has been accorded the sex of female by the committee, based on the medical tests, who have the power to make such decisions.
If you refuse to accord her the respect of her designated and chosen sex, that is your choice, but it makes no difference to her being allowed to compete in a female competition.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

People may have been allocated the incorrect sex at birth, based on someone (doctor, midwife, parent) having to make a binary decision on a non-binary issue, therefore they can correct that mistake at a later point in their life.
Sex is recorded on the birth certificate, and it can be changed.

Transgenders are also humans, and they have rights too.
You can't afford some humans their rights by denying others their rights. That is nonsensical.
It's like saying our rights are more important than theirs. That's promoting inequality.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Wimmin cannot possibly hope to compete with men in most sports.
We aren't equal. we never have been & never will be.
Is it not time we celebrated our differences ?

Exactly. That's why we separate men and women in sport, to fully celebrate each in their achievements.

What if you approached the issue from the point of view that 'sport' was designed from a patriarchal viewpoint.
What if Olympic sport had been 'invented' or designed from a matriarchal stance?
Then sport wouldn't be about the higher, faster, stronger, etc. It would be more about stamina, lightweight, slender, grace, beauty, etc.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Blimey woman campaign for the right to have boxing and weightlifting included into the olympics

it gets granted and than a load of blokes dressed up as woman (?)

come waltzing into the caper

Don't be ridiculous, you can't just dress up as a woman to be included.
If you want to be considered as a serious contributor, you need to offer intelligent, rational comments, not childish, ridiculous claims.

what about that zimbwian runner
Casta wats her name

she has been banned from competing yet some bloke gets included

Then she was allocated the sex of male by the committee. That excluded her from competing in female events.
Many other athletes have resigned from sport to avoid the degrading medical tests required.

If someone has been allowed to enter the female competition, in the view of the committee, she was not some bloke.
All you are doing is reinforcing the view that you are incapable of offering serious contributions.

 

[transam]

They are discussing this issue on the moral maze on the radio

basically boiled down to the definition as to if you are a bloke or a woman comes down to a decision made by some commitee

 

[JohnD]

Don't be ridiculous, you can't just dress up as a woman to be included.

According to many Trans lobbyists, you don't even have to dress up.

You only have to say the magic words "I am a woman" to become one.

This is why it is essential to be sure what a "woman" is.

It is not "any person who declares themself to be one."

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

basically boiled down to the definition as to if you are a bloke or a woman comes down to a decision made by some commitee

In the context of this discussion, yes!
Is 'sex' a medical, legal definition? Or is it an emotive, religious, moral definition?
If a person is assigned an incorrect classification at birth, surely they have the legal right, if it is supported by medical opinion, to change their sex.
I would argue that it is immoral and unjust to insist that one continues through life having been assigned an incorrect classification at birth on a cursory glance by whoever was attending the birth.
Even ardent criminals have a right of appeal. Those who were incorrectly assigned their sex, are totally innocent victims of the error. Yet they may have suffered a lifetime of problems.
The person attending the birth would also be under some pressure.

Imagine the joyous news at the birth.
Mother: is it a boy or a girl? We so wanted a girl.
Midwife: erm, well, erm, we need to look at bit more carefully to decide.
Mother: What?????

Or
Mother: is it a boy or a girl? We so wanted a girl.
Midwife: Erm, it's a girl.
Mother: Whoopee!. I'll call her Ethel, because I want her to be an athlete, or maybe Olympia because it would be great if she could enter the olympics.

 

[JohnD]

You can't afford some humans their rights by denying others their rights.

Correct.

Women should not have their rights removed for the benefit of non-women.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

According to many Trans lobbyists, you don't even have to dress up.

You only have to say the magic words "I am a woman" to become one.

This is why it is essential to be sure what a "woman" is.

It is not "any person who declares themself to be one."

Not for sporting competitions. You have to pass medical tests.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Correct.

Women should not have their rights removed for the benefit of non-women.

If they are declared to be women, they are also women.
You can't afford one group their rights by trashing another group's.

 

[JohnD]

Is 'sex' a medical, legal definition? Or is it an emotive, religious, moral definition?

no.

Sex is a fact.

It is not a feeling, an inclination, a preference, a belief or a whim.

you are thinking of what is now called "gender"

 

[JohnD]

If they are declared to be women, they are also women.

Sex is a fact.

it is not a declaration.

if you declare youself to be a woman, you do not magically sprout ovaries and a uterus. Nor if somebody else declares it.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

no.

Sex is a fact.

It is not a feeling, an inclination, a preference, a belief or a whim.

you are thinking of what is now called "gender"

Sex is a fact.

it is not a declaration.

Sex is a, sometimes arbitrary, classification on a birth certificate. It can be changed.
In the case of sporting competitions, that can only be done if supported by medical evidence.

 

[JohnD]

Sex is a, sometimes arbitrary, classification on a birth certificate. It can be changed.

No.

you are thinking to an error in classification. not a change in sex.

have you ever owned a guinea-pig?

Did it change its sex?