Next door loft conversion - best approach re: party wall?

[Londoner]

I just received a letter out of the blue from a party wall surveyor saying they've noticed our neighbour is planning to convert their loft and strongly urging us to allow them to act as surveyor to help protect our side of the party wall, with our neighbours being liable for their costs.

This is basically a 'cold call' and seemed designed to scare us into action and after some research I don't feel comfortable using these people as it sounds like they will try to squeeze as much as possible out of our neighbours who we generally get on with.

However, I do like the idea of having a surveyor involved just to independently check everything is ok and to assess any damage afterwards, if there is any. I don't even mind paying for this myself.

My question is what is the most amicable way of going ahead with this? I don't want to burden my neighbour with a surveyor who is just out to rack up charges. I also don't want to end up with damage and not having a professional assessment of it. I also would like to keep things amicable with our neighbours!

Any ideas on the best approach?

 

[luisdesign]

I'd ignore the letter.

This solicitor is just trying to drum up business by watching out for applications to the local authority. yes, you may want ot choose to have a party wall surveyor, but you do not need to approach one for yourself.

Your neighbours should have been made aware of the party wall act by their designers. The neighbours should send you a notification that they want to carry out works that will affect the party wall and you are entitled to raise a dispute in order to have an agreement drawn up.

It is true that your neighbour will have to foot the bill for your surveyor as well as their own. However, your neighbour will need to appoint an impartial surveyor themselves and, if you agree, you can also use that same surveyor. This usually saves a lot of costs because rather than having to pay for two separate surveyors (who will often spend a lot of time going back and forth between each other for no apparent reason) the neighbour will effectively be charged for 1+1/2 surveyors...

Seeing as you've been made aware, you can always pop over and chat with your neighbour about their proposals. Let them know that whilst you don't object to the principal of the proposals you would like to see a party wall agreement in place. This will give them a heads up that they will need to go looking for an appropriate surveyor.

 

[^woody^]

Was the letter from the shower Vincent-Brown & Associates by chance?

If so, leave them well alone. Search the internet for their good name ... if you find it let me know

Your concept of "having a surveyor involved to ... check everything is OK" is misplaced, as that wont happen in most PW work. They don't check anything, they write a standard schedule about how things must be done, and then that is it.

If there is any damage, you will see it, and the neighbour is responsible for it just the same. You get no additional protection from the PWA in this respect

Anyway, it is up to the neighbour to formally notify you first, and unlless you have been served notice, you can't appoint a surveyor yourself unless you pay for him yourself

Just have a look at the plans and see what is going on. If you do decide that a PW surveyor is necessary appoint a proper local firm who wont rip anyone off

 

[Londoner]

your neighbour will need to appoint an impartial surveyor themselves and, if you agree, you can also use that same surveyor. This usually saves a lot of costs because rather than having to pay for two separate surveyors (who will often spend a lot of time going back and forth between each other for no apparent reason) the neighbour will effectively be charged for 1+1/2 surveyors...

Sounds like a sensible way to go. Is there a term for this kind of arrangement?

Was the letter from the shower Vincent-Brown & Associates by chance?

They're called PSG based in Harrow (nowhere near me).

 

[LGB14]

Hi

This is L, I actually work for Vincent Brown and would like to respond on their behalf.

Though this particular letter was not sent by VBA we would like to make a response to criticisms made by Woody; His accusation that we ‘do not check anything’ is not accurate at all. If we are receiving a notice on behalf of a neighbour, or serving notice on behalf of the party undertaking works, we check details continuously. We check whether notices are valid and adhere to the requirements of the party wall Act. We check, amongst other things, drawings and clarify what works are taking place and how they might impact the neighbour. We check other surveyors’ Party Wall Awards to make sure the necessary clauses are included that will protect neighbouring properties as much as possible.

Many, though of course not all, parties undertaking work are not aware of party wall matters. This can lead to an understandable frustration when an extra cost is involved. Party Wall notices are a legal obligation and therefore our letters often serve to inform both parties.

I hope this clears up some comments, we honestly are not out to upset anyone and if you do have questions or further comments below get in touch here on or DM.

Thanks

 

[geraldthehamster]

Sounds like a sensible way to go. Is there a term for this kind of arrangement?

Do you get on with your neighbour? I'd just let them get on with it. Insisting on surveyors and structural engineers is going to add hundreds to their costs, and isn't going to make them like you very much. Seriously.

Cheers
Richard

 

[tony1851]

@LGB14.

Do you actually go up into the client's loft before work starts to check the condition of the party wall, look for any pre-existing defects, and take pics?

 

[met6173]

Was the letter from the shower Vincent-Brown & Associates by chance?

If so, leave them well alone. Search the internet for their good name ... if you find it let me know

Your concept of "having a surveyor involved to ... check everything is OK" is misplaced, as that wont happen in most PW work. They don't check anything, they write a standard schedule about how things must be done, and then that is it.

If there is any damage, you will see it, and the neighbour is responsible for it just the same. You get no additional protection from the PWA in this respect

Anyway, it is up to the neighbour to formally notify you first, and unlless you have been served notice, you can't appoint a surveyor yourself unless you pay for him yourself

Just have a look at the plans and see what is going on. If you do decide that a PW surveyor is necessary appoint a proper local firm who wont rip anyone off

 

[met6173]

'Anyway, it is up to the neighbour to formally notify you first, and unlless you have been served notice, you can't appoint a surveyor yourself unless you pay for him yourself'

Does this mean that the agreement that my neighbour has entered in prior to me serving notice of works is worthless and null n void? I'm hoping this is the case as my neighbours have signed up to Vincent Brown & Associates who appear to make a habit of preying on vulnerable, naive people.

 

[Clari]

Met6173 did you get an answer to this. My.neighbours signed the form from psg Philip Gee before I served the notice on them.

 

[Nakajo]

VBA, certainly have bad press. I've no idea if it's deserved.

 

[^woody^]

VBA, certainly have bad press. I've no idea if it's deserved.

No one deserves it more. Though some may be equally deserving.

 

[FRAN1870]

A party wall agreement protects the person doing the work from being sued for more that any damage .... So like emotional upset, inconvenience etc if they damage your property. If they damage your property they will have to pay for any repairs whatever so it's actually in thier best interest to get you to sign a party wall.

However, if they convert the loft they might not even need to touch the party wall ... Speak to the neighbour and ask for copies of the plans or the design intent. If they need to load the party wall just get an SE to take a quick look. It won't cost that much really but make sure you keep the neighbour on side

 

[jeds]

These companies are ambulance chasers and will generally attempt to extend the procedure and increase costs - often excessive costs. In the majority of cases domestic loft conversions and adjoining extensions are low risk and will cause no significant damage. My advice is ask the neighbour to see their plans and ask of they intend serving notice. If they do serve, you can use the same surveyor as a joint surveyor. The most important thing from your side is that you have a condition survey of your property. The appointed surveyor normally does that and gives a copy to both sides. If any damage occurs the survey is proof that the damage did not pre-exist and therefore was a result of the works. Bottom line is that the building owner is responsible for all damage and repairs and the surveyor should see that this is attended to. If the works look very complicated or require extensive alterations to the party wall things may be different, so judge when you have all the info.

 

[chappers]

Hi

This is L, I actually work for Vincent Brown and would like to respond on their behalf.

Though this particular letter was not sent by VBA we would like to make a response to criticisms made by Woody; His accusation that we ‘do not check anything’ is not accurate at all. If we are receiving a notice on behalf of a neighbour, or serving notice on behalf of the party undertaking works, we check details continuously. We check whether notices are valid and adhere to the requirements of the party wall Act. We check, amongst other things, drawings and clarify what works are taking place and how they might impact the neighbour. We check other surveyors’ Party Wall Awards to make sure the necessary clauses are included that will protect neighbouring properties as much as possible.

Many, though of course not all, parties undertaking work are not aware of party wall matters. This can lead to an understandable frustration when an extra cost is involved. Party Wall notices are a legal obligation and therefore our letters often serve to inform both parties.

I hope this clears up some comments, we honestly are not out to upset anyone and if you do have questions or further comments below get in touch here on or DM.

Thanks

Really but your company drums up business in it's own interest, by cold calling, not out of kindness and concern for any of the parties involved.
Combined with the fact that you also have a terrible reputation all over the internet.