One third of Britons admit being racially prejudiced

[RogueHanger]

Aron, the definition of culture as the ideas, customs and social behaviours, doesn't hinge on one practice that we find abhorrent.
It's like saying that our culture hinges on teenage pregnancy, or US culture hinges on American Football, or Swedish culture hinges on saunas. It's nonsense.
Similarly, those countries that you've shown have high rates of FGM doesn't determine the wholesale culture, ideas or social behaviours.
As I've said, repeatedly, you've highlighted a practice that is evident in many cultures and countries. It's not a culture per se, and it doesn't determine any culture in itself.
It's a practice.

Additionally, it's normal to provide links to your reference material so that the reader can check out your source for themselves. Oterwise your reference material has no validity.

You started off by saying:

Well, if someone asks "am I predicated against other races", the answer is yes.

But that's only because the real question should be "am I prejudiced against other cultures", but no one asks that question, academics only ever see racism.

Many other cultures are inferior to ours, ........................./

Now if you had said, there are some pactices within other cultures that we find abhorrent, or are considered cruel and barbaric, I would have agreed with you.
But you can't associate a practice with a complete culture.
Bullfighting doesn't encompass the Spanish culture.
It might be accepted and practised in some communities and areas within Spain, and other countries, but it's outlawed in many parts of Spain.
Similarly, FGM is outlawed in over 50% of countries in which it is practised.

It's like saying oranges are superior to apples because they have more juice. It's a one dimensional argument.
That is what you are offering, a one dimensional argument and assuming it's a holistic argument.

 

[AronSearle]

Aron, the definition of culture as the ideas, customs and social behaviours, doesn't hinge on one practice that we find abhorrent.

Strawman.

Similarly, those countries that you've shown have high rates of FGM doesn't determine the wholesale culture, ideas or social behaviours.

Stopped reading here.

Some cultures practice FGM, evidence has been given to you, culture is what people do, so it is a part of their culture, no one ever claimed it was the total of their culture, that’s another of your strawman arguments, and all you can do is argue over a definition, throw strawman about, and wriggle wriggle wriggle.

Pick one of those countries with over 90% FGM, by the dictionary definition a culture is what a group of people do, a country is a group of people, it is therefore a part of their culture, no wriggling out of that.

Pick one of those countries with FGM over 90%, any one you want, and explain why their culture is equal, you may list positive aspects of their culture, or how their people are overall happy and healthy.

Good luck though, because we all know those countries that practice FGM are full of crime, discrimination, corruption, poor life outlooks, poverty, my my, its almost as if extremely bad cultural practices have some kind of correlation to their life outlooks and prosperity.

 

[RogueHanger]

Stopped reading here.

Why?

Some cultures practice FGM,

Precisely. It is a practice of some cultures. It isn't the b'all and end all of those cultures.

culture is what people do, so it is a part of their culture, no one ever claimed it was the total of their culture,

You did. You said that many other cultures are inferior to ours.You did not say some cultures have practices that.......etc.

that’s another of your strawman arguments, and all you can do is argue over a definition, throw strawman about, and wriggle wriggle wriggle.

Hardly a strawman argument to quote your comment and demonstrate how it is false.

Pick one of those countries with over 90% FGM, by the dictionary definition a culture is what a group of people do, a country is a group of people, it is therefore a part of their culture, no wriggling out of that.

No, the dictionay definition is the ideas, customs and social behaviours. It's not limited to one practice which is more often than not illegal.

Pick one of those countries with FGM over 90%, any one you want, and explain why their culture is equal, you may list positive aspects of their culture, or how their people are overall happy and healthy.

Why do you expect me to explain the opposite of your assertion, Surely, if you make an assertion then the onus is on you to prove that assertion, which you have not attempted to do. You've made many claims and accusations but you've reduced your concentration on one, mainly, illegal practice.

Otherwise I could say Aron has a single track closed mind and ask you to dispove it. That's nonsense.

Good luck though, because we all know those countries that practice FGM are full of crime, discrimination, corruption, poor life outlooks, poverty, my my, its almost as if extremely bad cultural practices have some kind of correlation to their life outlooks and prosperity.

Now you're resorting to exagerated and wild claims. Which you'll subsequently expect me to disprove.
Strange, it appears that UK is full of crime, discrimination, etc, etc, if you only read the DM.
If you limit your opinion of cultures and countries to the reports in the papers, you'll have a jaundiced view of those countries and cultures.

 

[AronSearle]

Stopped reading here.

Why?

Some cultures practice FGM,

Precisely. It is a practice of some cultures. It isn't the b'all and end all of those cultures.

Do you know what a strawman is?

wiggle wiggle wiggle.

Nobody is arguing that it is the b'all and end all of those cultures, thats your strawman, again.

I asked you to pick one of those countries with +90% of FGM, the people of those countries will make a culture, and I specifically said for you to list other cultural traits that make their culture equal, bit of a hint that, of course FGM is not their entire culture, hence me asking you to list the other positive parts.

But you cant do it can you, you cant provide us reasons why cultures that have high rates of crime, violence, discrimination are actually equal to ours.

Why do you expect me to explain the opposite of your assertion, Surely, if you make an assertion then the onus is on you to prove that assertion, which you have not attempted to do.

Because my assertion is based upon facts, yours is based upon repetition, strawmen, and constant wiggling over what is culture.

Those countries that practice FGM have high rates of discrimination, crime, poverty, this outcome proves their cultures inferiority, no again, don't try and strawman the argument that it is all about FGM, wiggle wiggle wiggle.

I said other cultures are inferior, they are, because they have higher rates of crime, violence, corruption and discrimination, and the people are generally less well off.

You can only deny this by trying to argue about the definition of culture.

 

[Brigadier]

"Thus, in cultures where it is widely practised, female genital mutilation has become an important part of the cultural identity of girls and women and may also impart a sense of pride, a coming of age and a feeling of community membership."

Eliminating Female genital mutilation
An interagency statement
OHCHR, UNAIDS, UNDP, UNECA, UNESCO, UNFPA, UNHCR, UNICEF, UNIFEM, WHO

You might want to educate the WHO et al. as to your definition of "culture"....

 

[Whitespirit66]

So, he's refused to condemn cultures that practice FGM, he's confessed to a depraved act of animal cruelty, has used a racial slur towards a poster here, and has told racist jokes on this forum, and is STILL making a pitiful scramble for the moral high ground? DropClanger couldn't be more fitting.

Yep, like 99% of lefties - chip on both shoulders, vastly over estimate their own intellect and abilities, but above all hypocrites of the highest order.

And they call the Tories the nasty party. Looking at the front rows of the Labour benches, there's some pretty unimpressive characters. Those poker-faced 'women' among them (think Harman, Jowell, Beckett, Cooper) are enough to turn Warren Beatty into a raving homo.

Apologies, I digress.

 

[RogueHanger]

Stopped reading here.

Why?

Some cultures practice FGM,

Precisely. It is a practice of some cultures. It isn't the b'all and end all of those cultures.

Do you know what a strawman is?

wiggle wiggle wiggle.

Nobody is arguing that it is the b'all and end all of those cultures, thats your strawman, again.

I asked you to pick one of those countries with +90% of FGM, the people of those countries will make a culture, and I specifically said for you to list other cultural traits that make their culture equal, bit of a hint that, of course FGM is not their entire culture, hence me asking you to list the other positive parts.

Sorry but that's just garbage, hardly understandable garbage..
I assume you want me to select parts of some cultures that are equal to our culture?
That's just nonsense when I've already said that other cultures are different, not inferior, nor superior.
There are some practices in all cultures that are preferable practices, and other practices that are neutral, but we may disagree with them. Then there are practices in all cultures that it would be nice to eradicate, but it's not possible because they are aberrations.
Additionally, you are asking me to disprove your assertion when I've already explained, it's your assertion, you prove it. We're not some kind of scientific body that puts theories forward to be disproved.

But you cant do it can you, you cant provide us reasons why cultures that have high rates of crime, violence, discrimination are actually equal to ours.

I have no intention of disproving your assertion. If you want to continue with the misguided assumption that UK culture is superior to others, your welcome to it, I don't share your opinion.
Moreover, you're making unsubstantiated claims about crime, violence, discrimination etc.
According to your theory, somewhere like Denmark must have the most superior culture, or wherever the lowest crime/violence rate is.

Why do you expect me to explain the opposite of your assertion, Surely, if you make an assertion then the onus is on you to prove that assertion, which you have not attempted to do.

Because my assertion is based upon facts, yours is based upon repetition, strawmen, and constant wiggling over what is culture.

Your argument is based on FGM being indicative of the culture of a particular country. Whereas FGM is a practice which happens in many countries and is not specific to any one country, community or religion.

Those countries that practice FGM have high rates of discrimination, crime, poverty, this outcome proves their cultures inferiority, no again, don't try and strawman the argument that it is all about FGM, wiggle wiggle wiggle.

Unsubstantiated claims.

I said other cultures are inferior, they are, because they have higher rates of crime, violence, corruption and discrimination, and the people are generally less well off.

You can only deny this by trying to argue about the definition of culture.

I repeat, according to your theory, somewhere like Denmark must be the most superior culture and we don't appear in the top ten:
http://www.elist10.com/top-10-countries-lowest-recorded-crime-rate/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-lowest-reported-crime.html

So now skip the silly insults, and wild accsuations and make your argument calmly, sensibly and with supporting facts and figures or references.

 

[AronSearle]

your argument is based on FGM being indicative of the culture of a particular country.

strawman.

Unsubstantiated claims.

Lies.

African countries that practice FGM have higher rates of violence corruption and discrimination

I repeat, according to your theory, somewhere like Denmark must be the most superior culture

Strawman again.

That's just nonsense when I've already said that other cultures are different, not inferior, nor superior.

Circular reasoning

I assume you want me to select parts of some cultures that are equal to our culture?

I have very clearly asked you to pick a country who's FGM rates are +90% and explain how their culture is equal to ours, Yes FGM is just one aspect of their culture.

Yet all I see are strawman, circular reasoning, lies, wiggle wiggle wiggle.

There are some practices in all cultures that are preferable practices

Foot in mouth time.

You acknowledged FGM as a practice, you acknowledged FGM is a practice in some cultures.

Pick one of those cultures and tell me why it is equal to ours.

Go on, I bet you wont /joe90

 

[Whitespirit66]

Getting the jist of the way the above debate is going (I can only see one half of the argument), it all sounds very familiar.

For race/culture, read positive discrimination/action. Dropclanger's M O would appear to be the same on all threads, leading to 30 pages of evasion and bluster.

Feeling a bit like groundhog day.

 

[Brigadier]

Your argument is based on FGM being indicative of the culture of a particular country.

No it is not - Aron has used FGM as an measurable practice of a particular culture (which happens to coincide very closely with some middle-belt african nations), and asked you to back up your assertion that such a culture is not inferior to ours, but only "different".

 

[Big Tone]

Interesting and hello again Rougue...

I'll engage again by asking you a straightforward question. (Oh no!)

Give me one thing, one trait, which you regard as cultural please?

Since anything said here by Aron or anyone else is going to be deemed just "different" I seem to have forgotten what is cultural.

So would you be so kind as to give me an example? NOT A LINK, OR WHAT SOME DEFINITION IS. AN EXAMPLE - YOUR EXAMPLE.

(To wriggle or not to wriggle. That is the question).

Add, albeit late: Thanks for the links. (Didn't 'do' a DIYnot thanks because I just liked the links).

 

[Gasman28]

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs241/en/

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...ated-central-african-republic-violence-unicef

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/31/central-african-republicannewdeaths.html

http://www.france24.com/en/20131206-france-military-violence-central african-republic/

http://www.unicef.org/wcaro/english/4501_5127.html

 

[Gasman28]

I have no intention of disproving your assertion. If you want to continue with the misguided assumption that UK culture is superior to others, your welcome to it, I don't share your opinion.

So, what you are saying is, countries that condone FGM are equal in culture to a civilised society?

Moreover, you're making unsubstantiated claims about crime, violence, discrimination etc.

Third world countries with appalling human rights spring to mind

According to your theory, somewhere like Denmark must have the most superior culture, or wherever the lowest crime/violence rate is.

Not in the sense of FGM

So now skip the silly insults, and wild accsuations and make your argument calmly, sensibly and with supporting facts and figures or references.

If you can afford us the same, then a sensible debate will take place.

 

[RogueHanger]

Give me one thing, one trait, which you regard as cultural please?

Are we at last getting some kind of agreement that single practices do not consitute a culture. Unless to use Brigadier's example of something like "drug culture".
However, cultures are constituted of loads of different practices, social norms, ideas, oganisations, etc.
E.G, UK democracy does not individualy determine UK culture.
So to answer your question, BT, I could give just about any answer, such as Oxfod Uni.

There are so many organisations regarded as "UK cultural heritage".
For instance, I could use "The British Monarchy" as an example, although look at the bloody history that created that institution. It's still not "British culture" per se.
I could just as easily give "Lourdes" in France as an example of French culture.But even that is not part of singularly French culture. It's an international destination

The whole can be idenitified as individual parts, but no one part can be considered to constitute the whole.

Soem practices are not isolated into countries, such as Coco leaf eating to combat hieghts in SA. I believe it happens along the lenght of the Andes. It's not a part of one countries culture.

If Aron had said that the practice of FGM is inferior to other practices, it would be very difficult to disagree. But he would have to compare it to say, tonsil removal, or tooth extraction. Of course there is no comparison.

.

 

[AronSearle]

Oh dear RH, loosing this one quite badly, do stop digging.

single practices do not consitute a culture.

Strawman.

Nobody but you is making that argument, and everyone but you seems to get this.

However, cultures are constituted of loads of different practices, social norms, ideas, oganisations, etc.

Yes, this is what we are trying to tell you, glad to see you are starting to take notice.

The whole can be idenitified as individual parts, but no one part can be considered to constitute the whole.

So when are you going to look at one of these countries with FGM over 90%, also look at all the other parts, and let us know why that countries culture is equal?

There are so many organisations regarded as "UK cultural heritage".
For instance, I could use "The British Monarchy" as an example, although look at the bloody history that created that institution. It's still not "British culture" per se.
I could just as easily give "Lourdes" in France as an example of French culture.But even that is not part of singularly French culture. It's an international destination

So we have had lies, wiggles, strawman and a continuation of Ad infinitum.

Anything you can to just avoid the basic question.

You could list Ad infinitum a number of british traits, or you could just look at our laws, how they are enforced and the level of crime, freedom and oppression, a very basic look at the overall culture, no, we don't need to know that 100 people practice morris dancing and that this is also a part of our culture.

We make FGM illigal, others dont, we more severly punush bribery, others don't we and we have less of it, others have more, we have more laws protecting against voilence, and these are enforced, others don't. We don't allow forced marrigies, others do, there are a number of easily identifiable laws that can gauge the freedom and life choices of people within a country and judge its culture, we dont have child soilders, others do, lots of them.

But all you can do is waffle on about the monarchy and lourdes.