A dangerous cult now runs Britain

[JohnD]

The protocol itself is undemocratic because it does not of have the consent of those most affected by it.

that is not what "democratic" means

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Sometimes just the threat is more effective.
The EU and Roi didn't have any moral qualms about introducing the treat of
violence on the UK border in Ireland during Brexit negotiations with Boris Johnson.

There's a massive difference between the threat of violence, and a warning that violence initiated by discontented politicians, might be an unintended consequence.
That dire warning of an unintended consequence is now coming to fruition from the threat of violence Poots has uttered, and supported by you.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The Unionist people didn't vote for this protocol.

The Unionist voted for Brexit, and the NI protocol is a result of that Brexit.
What would be your preferred solution? A NI/Eire border?
A Reunification?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I don't think so.
This protocol violates both the GFA and the act of Union.

Boris signed an agreement that violates two other international agreements?
That figures.
Unless you're wrong.

 

[ajohn]

I don't think so.
This protocol violates both the GFA and the act of Union.

This lot obviously aren't too bothered about the NI problems as it was an issue from day 1. The only answer to that really is being in the SM. The EU have rules and decisions made by the heads of the states within it. Boris sees bar codes on artic trailers and auto scanning etc but boarders have customs sheds. Seems he thinks those aren't needed yet wants them to collect his VAT and control people movement.

What's left now - the deal to carry on dealing.

One aspect our lot didn't like the sound of was closer political union. Some other member states don't either but what would that have finished up like - similar to the USA, Senates etc.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Democratic choice by whom?

The people of the UK, of which you and all the other residents of NI are part. Matters such as EU membership are not devolved issues.

The Unionist people didn't vote for this protocol.

But they did vote for a party which took bribes to prop up a government at a time when there was still a possibility for a damaging form of Brexit with the absolutely inevitable and unavoidable issues affecting NI to be avoided. They did vote for a party which took bribes to prop up a party whos members were on record as caring so little for NI that they would rather terrorism started again or NI left the UK than Brexit be lost.

You yourself were opposed to any suggestion that people should have been given any opportunity to say "hang on a minute - this isnt turning out the way we were told it would, and now it looks as if there are all sorts of problems which you didnt tell us about, and were not sure that leaving is such a good idea after all".

And then in another democratic exercise, the people of the UK elected, with a huge majority, a goverment led by a man quite clearly prepared to throw NI under the bus in order to "get Brexit done".

No amount of wishing could ever have wished away the reality of the trilemma of borders between the UK and the EU, NI and the EU, and NI and Great Britain given the democtratic wishes of the majority to leave the EU, leave the Single Market, leave the Customs Union, and to stop following standards which apply in the EU.

The protocol itself is undemocratic because it does not of have the consent of those most affected by it.

I doubt that Brexit any longer has the consent of those most affected by it.

But it was voted for, in a democratic exercise which you hold sacrosanct.

Your remainer mentality doesn't just extend to contempt for the democratic wishes of the 17.4million who voted to leave the EU

This what the UK has come to, a rich foreigner with plenty of money can overturn the will of 17.4 million people expressed in a democratic referendum.

The people of NI have the democratic right to leave the UK and become part of the Irish Republic, and thus back in the EU instead of a half-way house, if they want.

But until then, you have to accept that you won, and stop moaning about it.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

The EU and Roi didn't have any moral qualms about introducing the treat of
violence on the UK border in Ireland during Brexit negotiations with Boris Johnson.

Are you claiming that they threatened to restart it?

Or that they were drawing attention to the possibility that others might restart it if the outcome of the negotiations went the wrong way?

Dont forget the backdrop of Boris leading a cult in which the vast majority of acolytes had said that such violence would be a price worth paying.

 

[JohnD]

Dont forget the backdrop of Boris leading a cult in which the vast majority of acolytes had said that such violence would be a price worth paying.

Nigel Farage threatened he would pick up a rifle, and his supporters cheered him

obviously, he wouldn't really, but when did anybody care that he lied?

 

[gasbanni]

View attachment 235244

You do understand this is a critique of the guardian ? This doesn't support your post rather the contrary.
By the way good job the Germans lost ...TWICE.

 

[Vinty]

NI/Eire border?

That is where the border should be.

 

[Vinty]

Are you claiming that they threatened to restart it?

No.
They introduced the threat of violence by others to extract political concessions from Boris and co.

An internal border is not to the advantage of the UK.

It only exists to appease the RoI and give the EU leverage in further negotiations with the UK.

 

[Vinty]

The people of the UK, of which you and all the other residents of NI are part. Matters such as EU membership are not devolved issues

Maybe the people of the UK should have a referendum to enact laws which only affect certain ethno/religious groups effectively making them 2nd class citizens in their own country.
Would you describe that as democratic.

 

[Vinty]

There's a massive difference between the threat of violence, and a warning that violence initiated by discontented politicians, might be an unintended consequence.
That dire warning of an unintended consequence is now coming to fruition from the threat of violence Poots has uttered, and supported by you.

It was the RoI who first introduced the potential for violence on the Irish border if their demands were not met.
The whole protocol ****** exists to pay off the Irish Republic and give the EU and advantage in futher negotiations with the UK.
Barnier is on record as saying he will use N.I. as a bargaining chip.
As for Poots, don't blame the messenger just because you don't like the message.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

No.
They introduced the threat of violence by others to extract political concessions from Boris and co.

Define "introduced".

Define "threat".

Show what they actually said, and when.

And consider whether it was before or after the vast majority of Brexit supporters (in the case of NI ones, 87%) said that the collapse of the peace process would be a price worth paying for Brexit.

An internal border is not to the advantage of the UK.

I agree, but unfortunately Leave won, so you have to move on and stop moaning about it.

It only exists to appease the RoI and give the EU leverage in further negotiations with the UK.

No, it exists because of rules which were known to everybody when they voted to leave.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

The whole protocol ****** exists to pay off the Irish Republic and give the EU and advantage in futher negotiations with the UK.

Nonsense.

Advantage?

We hold all the cards - I distinctly remember the Leave side telling us that.

As for Poots, don't blame the messenger just because you don't like the message.

One could say the same about you blaming the RoI and the EU because you dont like the message they brought concerning the return of violence. You cant really blame them for the fact that 87% of NI Brexit supporters said that would be a price orth paying.