Part P dilemma

[industryspark]

softus wrote

Have you told your MP that you think this particular law is wrong?

Do you think this would make a difference? ha. As previously said i dont disagree with it, the electrical trade needed something like part P. Has it been implemented correctly though? Could the situation be improved and the law refined? I believe so personally.

softus wrote

You still seem confused about the Part P process. Registration for self-certification isn't a yardstick of electrical competence, it's just a record of those who are qualified, who offer a domestic service to consumers, and who can be bothered to register.

not at all confused, im well aware it doesnt assess your competence-as said in previous post- ive seen much work by registered contractors which quite honestly is a disgrace.

softus wrote

In that case you could point out to him that he could save a lot of money on not maintaining his car, not having it MOTd, and not taxing it.

he doesnt drive . Technically you are correct but i dont think your comparison is really relevant if you think about it hard enough.


softus wrote

This is interesting - are you saying that the qualifications that you claim to be proof of your own competence are not a valid way of determining the competence of other electricians?

In a word yes, just because someone has some qualifications and is part P registered it doesnt mean that they are working to the regulations and are doing exceptable work.....i know because ive seen it (think we all have). we all have gaps in our knowledge, some larger than others. Im sure there are sparks out there with the same qualifications as me who are far better and more knowledgable/experienced than i am, but there will also be ones who have bigger gaps in knowledge or cant be bothered to work to regs or just dont know how.

 

[Tim 77]

Just let me know if you need a bit of 2.5mm red + black T+E

 

[Softus]

Do you think this would make a difference?

Yes. And the more people who do it, the bigger the difference. It's your MP's job to take input from the constituents - how can he do his job unless you give information and opinion?

As previously said i dont disagree with it, the electrical trade needed something like part P. Has it been implemented correctly though? Could the situation be improved and the law refined? I believe so personally.

Well, propose a refinement to your MP then.

not at all confused, im well aware it doesnt assess your competence-as said in previous post- ive seen much work by registered contractors which quite honestly is a disgrace.

In that case, since you know that Part P doesn't measure or challenge competence, I don't understand why you're so irked at having to notify.

...just because someone has some qualifications and is part P registered it doesnt mean that they are working to the regulations and are doing exceptable work.

But it means that they're officially claiming to be doing so, which is more than non-registered and non-notifying people do. And this means that they're accountable for their work.

 

[industryspark]

Securespark wrote

The bloke is so full of bull that one day I'm going to call his bluff, tell him I'm about to commence rewiring & sit back & watch him panic.

i say you do it and watch him squirm, sounds like a right jobsworth parasite.

tim77 wrote

Just let me know if you need a bit of 2.5mm red + black T+E

thats the spirit . get it on ebay tim, someone told me its going for more than new stuff.

 

[Softus]

Just let me know if you need a bit of 2.5mm red + black T+E

What a wizard wheeze. I doubt that your LABC has already thought of that, so they won't be on the lookout for numbskulls who think that the harmonised structural cable colour scheme has anything to do with Part P.

 

[industryspark]

softus wrote

Yes. And the more people who do it, the bigger the difference. It's your MP's job to take input from the constituents - how can he do his job unless you give information and opinion?

In a perfect world that would work but tbh i dont think they actually give a t*ss. Anyway lets leave that point as what you are saying is correct and your right ill admit- maybe i just dont have much faith in politicians!

In that case, since you know that Part P doesn't measure or challenge competence, I don't understand why you're so irked at having to notify.

the fact that it would cost £100 (at a guess) for someone to probably not bother coming out to check the work, just handle the paperwork. might aswell throw a ton in the gutter because i know the work is exceptable and im competant to do the job.

 

[Softus]

In a perfect world that would work but tbh i dont think they actually give a t*ss.

I never said that it's a perfect world, and I'm sure that some politicians are guilty of not caring, but I believe the truth is that some do and some don't.

the fact that it would cost £100 (at a guess) for someone to probably not bother coming out to check the work, just handle the paperwork. might aswell throw a ton in the gutter because i know the work is exceptable and im competant to do the job.

But you wouldn't be doing it legally. If you never sell your house then I'm sure it won't be a problem, but what if you do, and the buyer wants to see the certificate for work done?

And, as with politicians, I would expect there to be bad and good Building Control departments. There are reports on this very forum of highly satisfied LABC customers - one reported that his LABC would accept his completed WCs and test results in lieu of their own inspection, and issued a certificate on that basis.

 

[industryspark]

softus wrote

But you wouldn't be doing it legally. If you never sell your house then I'm sure it won't be a problem, but what if you do, and the buyer wants to see the certificate for work done?

well the situation was mate's house. besides its getting put through all legal and above board now anyway as i said in previous post. as for doing it legally, i think i could sleep at night!

we'l have to agree to disagree softus cos we could go on al night mate!

 

[andyandy2]

I agree with the op that to have to notify BC or use a part p registered spark to do minor work like fitting one extra socket seems a bit ott, I recently carried out some electrical work on an extension for my neighbours, after "discussions" with BC they agreed on a pir certificate, the company we used checked first fix, and sent a different guy at the end of the job to test and issue certificate, the testing involved was minimal to say the least. Similar situations arise as one person has already posted, with minor building works why should we be charged to replace a door or window in our own homes, the modern window fitters tool kit seems to consist of cordless drill, expanding foam and silicon.
The frustrating part for me is having been involved in the motor trade for the best part of my working life, that anyone of you posting on here be you a plumber, electrician, bricklayer, solicitor, bank manager or whatever, could work on the braking system of a 38 tonne truck or a 53 seater coach, without any qualifications, or certificates, and the only time that vehicle would be checked is on its next mot (without any dismantling) an yet we can't put an extra socket or door in our own home without being charged.

 

[333rocky333]

get it on ebay tim, someone told me its going for more than new stuff.

AsI found out after I scrapped the lot
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=122182&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

 

[Softus]

...anyone of you posting on here be you a plumber, electrician, bricklayer, solicitor, bank manager or whatever, could work on the braking system of a 38 tonne truck or a 53 seater coach, without any qualifications, or certificates...

I beg to differ. An incompetent person couldn't do it safely, and AFAIK an commercial vehicle operator is required to be competent, which includes employing/engaging a competent repairer, therefore the vehicle couldn't be used legally, so it's no different.

 

[andyandy2]

I agree with you in some respects Softus as you say commercial vehicle operators need to be competent, but any private individual could buy and run a truck, and don't need any operating licence as long as the use is not for "hire or reward" There is still no need for a competent mechanic/ fitter to have qualifications / certificates in fact there are alot of mechanics who are self taught, and yet an electrician with qualifications can't rewire his own house without notifying, just because he's not a member of a part p scheme

 

[Softus]

There are tasks that a builder who is trained and competent can't carry out is his own house without a building notice. I can't help wondering why there aren't hordes of them complaining about the Building Regulations.

Is your objection that you can carry out some jobs and not others?

Would you prefer it if there was no self-certification scheme at all?

 

[andyandy2]

I'm not really objecting at all just commenting, don't understand why certain trades etc have more rules and regs, how many "incompetent" persons repair their own cars is that really any less dangerous than carrying out minor building works etc

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sure. This guy (head of BC at SMBC) is taking the line that I am a DIY'er.

Legally you are....

Will not recognise my 20 year's experience or my job.

There is no legal basis on which he has to....

Course, Ban, I know he cannot charge me extra for I&T, but it makes me livid he's even trying. Partly because I know he'll be telling everyone else the same & some will fall for it.

'twas ever thus - all you can do is to stick up for yourself..

He's told me to estimate the cost as I would any other rewire & the charges are based on that. He's said that he "can only afford to send an inspector out a maximum of two times", hence the fact he told me that I cannot do the job at weekends & take my time over it, even though I have 2 years. He would like it completed within 6 weeks.

To be reasonable, they can't enter an open-ended commitment to come out multiple times.

The bloke is so full of bull that one day I'm going to call his bluff, tell him I'm about to commence rewiring & sit back & watch him panic. The trouble is, these people are like God & if he does not issue a cert, I may be in trouble.

If you notify and pay the fee, then on what basis could he refuse?