Part P dilemma

[Dippy]

dunt wanna push it with the loading.

This is the reason you have to notify - because you give the impression that you haven't calculated the loading and factored in the relevant diversity.

I have to agree. If you already are worried about the load on that circuit then you shouldn't even be discussing HOW you intend to add the spur until you KNOW what the typical/maximum load is.

Sounds to me like your mate would benefit from more than just a single spur added and so he'll be better off using an electrician registered on a self-certifying scheme.

 

[Rosebery]

I currently self-certify, but ONLY when working for my firm. I cannot when doing work for myself.

Why can't you give your firm a contract to do the work? They send you to do it the job (only at weekends obviously) and you self certify the work.

 

[Cremeegg]

Surely the fee payable to LABC is not per visit - its up to them how many or few they do. £210 aint bad - I can think of a couple of London councils that are £350. Part P is like so many modern laws badly thought out and is never going to be properly enforced - not least becuase it'll be many many years before all BCO's know anything about electrics. They are good on structural bits - thats what they learnt at college - not electrics.

 

[industryspark]

Wow, quite a response, wasnt expecting some of the replies recieved but there you go....

saxondale,

can you explain to me how me not been part P registered has any bearing on my qualifications or competency? i think a factory spark with qualifications such as mine is far far far more likelly to be able to handle a 20A single socket radial than a DI is to know how to size and install 3 phase equipment......so your comparison is basically b*ll*x.
i think most on here know where i was coming from but to start a reply saying '' **** of back to your factory'' speaks volumes about yourself. most people use the forum to debate our proffesion not be a complete n*b.

ricicle,

correct-was just venting the frustration and correct again-probably unjustified! not been posting much recently but got bit more time on my hands now so mite be logging in a bit more.

softus & dippy,

had already decided against spurring from the ring because of the load and my calculation of it (thats the whole point of this post). if i was spurring from the ring then i wouldnt be posting. calling me a cowboy softus is a bit unjustified tbh. maybe the thread has given you this impression, it was meant to be a bit light hearted and tongue in cheek. i can assure you i am not a cowboy.

securespark,

sounds like you are in a similar situation. am not against regulating electric work done in the home, just think it could have been implemented a little better to allow for people in our situation.[/b]

 

[Jaymack]

am a fully qualified spark, 2381,2391,hnc, onc, full apprentiship ect.....

how can it be that i can install 1000 Amp busbars and design factory installations but i cant add a socket from a domestic CU.

If you have studied BS7671 and preferably passed the 2381 exam recently, then consider yourself able to carry out domestic work.

Regards

 

[dingbat]

am a fully qualified spark, 2381,2391,hnc, onc, full apprentiship ect.....

...b****y part p! good idea but poor poor implementation. how can it be that i can install 1000 Amp busbars and design factory installations but i cant add a socket from a domestic CU.

Yes, how annoying... Imagine how utterly frustrating it must be for a builder, say, who makes his living building all day long, to have to submit a building notice when he wants to do some building work in his own house!!

If you bother to read the Building Regulations, you'll eventually work out that it matters not one jot who you are, or how well qualified/experienced/skilled you are.

The regulations apply to the requirements for the work undertaken. They apply whether you are a fully qualified designer engineer, an expert tester, a domestic electrician or a DIY-er.

An exception to the need to notify exists so as to allow those who do this work for a living and can demonstrate their competence may continue making their living with the minimum of inconvenience. (And, it also helps out the LABC, big time!)

So, you can tell your friend - because the legal responsibility is his - that he has two legal choices:

Either he (or you, if you so wish) can submit a building notice and have you do the work, complying with all the requirements of his LABC inspector.

Or, he can pick up the telephone book and find a registered self-certifying electrician.

It's the same choice any other tradesman or householder has with regard to any type of work that requires notification under the Building Regulations.

I hope that helps.

 

[saxondale]

Wow, quite a response, wasnt expecting some of the replies recieved but there you go....

saxondale,

can you explain to me how me not been part P registered has any bearing on my qualifications or competency? i think a factory spark with qualifications such as mine is far far far more likelly to be able to handle a 20A single socket radial than a DI is to know how to size and install 3 phase equipment......so your comparison is basically b*ll*x.
i think most on here know where i was coming from but to start a reply saying '' **** of back to your factory'' speaks volumes about yourself. most people use the forum to debate our proffesion not be a complete n*b.

*******s - your whining thats all, if you want to do something go get the papers that say you can, otherwise your no different to the bloke next door.

If this work is "for a friend..." your not insured either

 

[spongsdad]

The thing is, Industryspark, that we have a few recent recruits to this forum who are good barrack room lawyers. They'll explain the minutiae of "the regulations" to you and then they'll bad mouth you for having the impertinence to ask the question in the first place. This is a country where I couldn't put a replacement door into my house without notifying the LABC and paying them a £46.00 fee for the trouble, (not that they ever came to inspect the work!). LABC departments are a bunch of parasites who collect stealth taxes on behalf of the government and don't even have the expertise to oversee the job properly. You'll be welcome to do any electrical work in my house, Part P or no Part P

 

[saxondale]

The thing is, Industryspark, that we have a few recent recruits to this forum who are good barrack room lawyers. They'll explain the minutiae of "the regulations" to you and then they'll bad mouth you for having the impertinence to ask the question in the first place. This is a country where I couldn't put a replacement door into my house without notifying the LABC and paying them a £46.00 fee for the trouble, (not that they ever came to inspect the work!). LABC departments are a bunch of parasites who collect stealth taxes on behalf of the government and don't even have the expertise to oversee the job properly. You'll be welcome to do any electrical work in my house, Part P or no Part P

I`ve got a mate in the army - quite competant at shooting people from long distances away

he was whining the other day that he`s not allowed to do it in his own garden

your point is ?

 

[spongsdad]

The thing is, Industryspark, that we have a few recent recruits to this forum who are good barrack room lawyers. They'll explain the minutiae of "the regulations" to you and then they'll bad mouth you for having the impertinence to ask the question in the first place. This is a country where I couldn't put a replacement door into my house without notifying the LABC and paying them a £46.00 fee for the trouble, (not that they ever came to inspect the work!). LABC departments are a bunch of parasites who collect stealth taxes on behalf of the government and don't even have the expertise to oversee the job properly. You'll be welcome to do any electrical work in my house, Part P or no Part P

I`ve got a mate in the army - quite competant at shooting people from long distances away

he was whining the other day that he`s not allowed to do it in his own garden

your point is ?

If you need to ask, you aren't as smart as you think you are.
If an OP asks a question, you aren't going to win any respect for your opinions by telling him to **** off.
There aren't any stupid questions- only stupid answers

 

[industryspark]

no doubts we all have differing opinions as to the wrongs and rights of part P in general and situations like this that arise.

differing views and opinions is fair game-everyone's entitled to there say, but saxondale, lets at least try to keep posts constructive and not just plain abusive as your not really adding anything are you?

certainly agree with some of your points spongsdad.

If i was changing out the CU/rewiring then yes i would inform LABC (albiet reluctantly :wink...........but inform them and pay (what.....£100? ) to come and check 1 socket that i am perfectly competent to install......i dont think so.....

point being that my mate has better things to be spending his money on and he cant afford a registered spark to come and do the job for him.

been drinking with a mate of mine anyway today who i went thru college with and he's putting the job through his firm (he;
's NICEIC) so problem solved anyway now.

On the subject of being registered i have seen many examples of poor work and PIR's done by NICEIC approved contractors.......i could go into more detail but i think if the NICEIC (and others) were more pro-active in assessing their members work and its standard then we would all be better off- not least the many quality sparks out there.

 

[ebee]

You`ve now decided not to engage in criminal activity then? Good.

Watch the speed limt whilst driving too

 

[Softus]

no doubts we all have differing opinions as to the wrongs and rights of part P in general and situations like this that arise.

Have you told your MP that you think this particular law is wrong?

If i was changing out the CU/rewiring then yes i would inform LABC (albiet reluctantly :wink...........but inform them and pay (what.....£100? ) to come and check 1 socket that i am perfectly competent to install......i dont think so.....

You still seem confused about the Part P process. Registration for self-certification isn't a yardstick of electrical competence, it's just a record of those who are qualified, who offer a domestic service to consumers, and who can be bothered to register.

point being that my mate has better things to be spending his money on and he cant afford a registered spark to come and do the job for him.

In that case you could point out to him that he could save a lot of money on not maintaining his car, not having it MOTd, and not taxing it.

On the subject of being registered i have seen many examples of poor work and PIR's done by NICEIC approved contractors.......i could go into more detail but i think if the NICEIC (and others) were more pro-active in assessing their members work and its standard then we would all be better off- not least the many quality sparks out there.

This is interesting - are you saying that the qualifications that you claim to be proof of your own competence are not a valid way of determining the competence of other electricians?

 

[securespark]

securespark,

sounds like you are in a similar situation. am not against regulating electric work done in the home, just think it could have been implemented a little better to allow for people in our situation.

Sure. This guy (head of BC at SMBC) is taking the line that I am a DIY'er.

Will not recognise my 20 year's experience or my job.

Course, Ban, I know he cannot charge me extra for I&T, but it makes me livid he's even trying. Partly because I know he'll be telling everyone else the same & some will fall for it.

He's told me to estimate the cost as I would any other rewire & the charges are based on that. He's said that he "can only afford to send an inspector out a maximum of two times", hence the fact he told me that I cannot do the job at weekends & take my time over it, even though I have 2 years. He would like it completed within 6 weeks.

The bloke is so full of bull that one day I'm going to call his bluff, tell him I'm about to commence rewiring & sit back & watch him panic. The trouble is, these people are like God & if he does not issue a cert, I may be in trouble.

 

[Softus]

The trouble is, these people are like God & if he does not issue a cert, I may be in trouble.

If he doesn't issue the certificate that he's legally obliged to, then he may be in trouble.