Part P testing / finding approved electrician for final test

[wrightste]

Hi,

I am just finished building an extension to my house. The building inspector has performed a visual check of the wiring and ok'd it. I have tested the two new rings and lighting circuit using approved calibrated equipment and have filled out the necessary forms (I have taken and hold city and guilds part 1 and part 2 electrical installation and 16th edition wiring regs and also a member of the IEE).

Since Jan 1 2005 I am unable to sign off the installation... I thought that I had found an NECEIC electrician who was prepared to test and sign off this work (having paid a visit checked the wiring visually before plaster boarding).

I have subsequently received an estimate of £275.00 + vat for testing the installation + upgrading meter tails + changing main bonding. This I find steep as originally he stated his hourly rate at £25.00 / hour and I wouldn't expect the above work to take that long !

Does anybody know of a good reliable electrician in the Stockport area that they can recommend for this work.

Regards

 

[Pensdown]

Who told you that you cant sign off your own works?

 

[wrightste]

The building inspector

 

[Pensdown]

Well he's wrong. There are 2 ways to conform to Part P, the first is to appoint a sparks who can self certify, the second is to do the works yourself and notify.

If you have notified as part of the overall works, your LABC only need a test cetificate completed by a COMPETANT person, ie someone who knows the regs, has and can use the correct test instuments. The model test cert is at the back of the PP doc and you can photocopy it, fill it in a submitt it. You DO NOT have to employ a sparks from the NIC or any other body. You can also up-rate your own tails and up-rate you own main bonding.

Section 1.6- 1.11 part p

 

[wrightste]

The following is an extract from the Stockport Website... (you are required...)

New electrical installations, rewires and adding new circuits to an existing installation

If the electrical contractor is a member of NICEIC or ECA, they must complete an Installation Certificate (Form 1) BS 7671 (as amended).

If the electrical contractor is not a member of NICEIC or ECA, they must complete the Design and Construction parts of the Installation Certificate (Form 2) BS 7671 (as amended) and you are required to arrange for an electrical contractor who is a member of these bodies to inspect and test the installation to enable them to complete the Inspection and Testing part of the form.

In both instances the electrical contractor is required to complete (Form 3)
Schedule of Inspection and (Form 4) Schedule of Test Results.

the full URL is

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/content...ontrol/buildingregsapps/noticeelectric?a=5441

 

[Pensdown]

Thanks for the link Your LABC is doing what quite a few doing, passing the buck and they are wrong to do so.

Its to late to find the circular from the ODPM but i'm sure someone else will post it and all will be clear

You are working to Part P and you can read it here

http://www.pensdown.co.uk/newsletter.html

 

[Pensdown]

LABC Issues

As mentioned above, some LABCs are spreading misinformation, either by accident or design, about the status and acceptability of electrical work done by DIYers or other non-registered people.

These include:

1) Stating that such persons simply cannot carry out notifiable work, and that it must be done by registered electricians. The legislation referenced above, Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004 makes it quite clear that this is not the case. LABCs are not allowed to refuse to process Building Notices submitted by non-registered people.


2) Stating that work carried out by a non-registered person must be inspected and tested by someone who is registered, or who they regard as qualified. Again, there is no mention of this requirement in the statutory instrument.

Recently the ODPM issued a circular to local authorities making it absolutely clear that they are not allowed to do this:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131042

Unfortunately, many LABCs are simply ignoring what the ODPM say, and persisting with their policy of requiring DIYers or other non-registered people to hire someone to inspect and test the work. The ODPM's position on this appears to be that if you are being told this by your LABC you should take them to court.


3) Attempting to impose extra charges to cover the inspection and testing of work done by a non-registered person. An LABC may well elect to subcontract inspection and testing if they do not have the capacity to do it themselves, but they are not allowed to charge extra because of this – the cost to them of subcontracting must be borne by them

Individual local authorities co-ordinate their services regionally and nationally (and provide a range of national approval schemes) via LABC Services. ( http://www.labc-services.co.uk ).

I recently posed LABC services the following question:

"My local Building Control dept has told me that because of staffing problems they are unable to inspect some building work, and will have to sub-contract it, and that I will therefore have to pay this cost on top of their fees.

Are they allowed to do this?"

Their reply was:

"Building Regulation fees are set to a scale that embraces the whole scope of what may be necessary in respect of checking and approving the plans and inspecting the work. The input necessary can vary according to the circumstances of a specific scheme, but the fees are not variable due to this feature.

The local authority has a legal duty to carry out the Building Regulation function to a proper degree. This can also vary in extent according to the demands of any scheme and considerable discretion rests with the authority. However they are responsible to give a proper service within the fee and cannot charge extra for the reason you mention. Indeed if they failed to inspect yet still charged you might have a case for a refund."

 

[wrightste]

Mny thanks for the pointer to the ODPM circular I note the following paragraphs are of particular importance

----------------------
Local authority charges for Part P work

Local authorities should ensure that charges for checking full plans applications or building notices and carrying out inspections of building work, including that relating to Part P, are pre-fixed in their charges scheme as required by the Building (Local Authority Charges) Regulations 1998. Authorities do not have powers to reassess a fixed charge, which they have levied for a particular application or notice, during the course of the work.

------------------------

There have been reports that some local authorities are asking householders to have electrical installation work inspected, tested and certificated by someone other than the person carrying out the work. Section 33(2) of the Building Act 1984 (which would give power to local authorities to require persons carrying out building work to carry out such reasonable tests, at the person's expense, of or in connection with the work for the purpose of enabling local authorities to ascertain whether the work complies with the requirements of the Regulations) has not been commenced. This means in our opinion that local authorities do not have the power to require householders to retain an electrician to test and certificate the work in accordance with BS 7671. Local authorities which have adopted such a practice should discontinue it immediately.

------------------------
I will pursue this matter next week with Stockport MBC.


Regards

Steven Wright

 

[Pensdown]

I know this might sound daft but although my company is PP approved, the engineers who do the work and the testing are not. I know of at least one that has notified as part of a building project and he has tested the work, completed an IEE test certificate and sent this to building control with a copy of his city & guilds stuff and a covering letter. In this instance they were quite happy and signed the work off.

But as you will note from Ban-all-sheds comprehensive post, the LABC's approch to PP does vary across the country but if you dig in, as far as I can make out as long as you can prove your competance there is no reason why you cannot submit your own test certificate if you have gone the notifiable route.

 

[securespark]

I have subsequently received an estimate of £275.00 + vat for testing the installation + upgrading meter tails + changing main bonding. This I find steep as originally he stated his hourly rate at £25.00 / hour and I wouldn't expect the above work to take that long !

Does anybody know of a good reliable electrician in the Stockport area that they can recommend for this work.

I am based in Stockport and was until recently self-employed. My current employers charge on average £120 for main bonding. Of course it depends how far away each is from the MET, and how easy it is to route - sometimes you have to run outside in conduit.

Testing - how long will this take? Is he estimating for a full PIR?

All in all, without viewing the job, £275 seems reasonable.

 

[wrightste]

The main bonding doesn't seem to be a problem, Cable from the supply to the consumer unit is the correct size, the cables are all accessible, Gas meter next to distribution panel, straight run for the cable to the water pipe... As for testing I completed the whole set of tests for the two rings (10 sockets and 11 socket) + lighting circuit in under an hour. I have also filled out a standard set of IEE forms using the PDF version (avilable as an IEE member).

Taking into account the cost of the materials and the fact that I would still need to fill out the majority of the paperwork I still believe that £275.00 is a lot for what I am getting (at £25.00 an hour this would be equivalent to 9 - 10 hours work).

If the worst comes to the worst I will pay the money just to get the extension finished and signed off.

 

[wrightste]

Hi, I've had my installation tested today by the NECEIC electrician. Decided that this would expedite matters with the local council. Very nice chap did a really thorough job would recommend him anytime.

Regards

Steve

 

[ban-all-sheds]

you are required to arrange for an electrical contractor who is a member of these bodies to inspect and test the installation to enable them to complete the Inspection and Testing part of the form.

So not only are they inventing requirements that are not in the Building Regulations, and ignoring the very clear advice from the ODPM that what they are doing is wrong, they are only accepting test certificates from members of NICEIC or ECA, despite the fact that there are other recognised Competent Person schemes.

They deserve a severe legal kicking.

 

[Adam_151]

FWIW, AFAIK the ECA is not a competant person scheme for part P, I think BRE is a competant person scheme run by the ECA, its kinda of like the NICEIC approved contractor/domestic installer thing, but at least with the NIC if you are an AC, you just have to sign the form and send it back, not pay again...

 

[securespark]

the full URL is

http://www.stockport.gov.uk/content...uildingregsapps/noticeelectric?a=5441[/QUOTE]

They still have not updated it.....