partp- consumer unit change

[annemarie]

Hello
New kitchen installed October 2007 by Core and Ore for Ikea. Needed new consumer unit for extra circuits along with new kitchen circuits. As far as I can tell PartP has only been issued for the new circuits. The circuits are not marked on the new consumer unit.... this is how the problem came to my attention as we since need a new electric shower and the elcetrician asked over the phone what the ampage off the current one was... I couldn't quickly say as unmarked.
Initially Core and Ore tried to say it wasn't necessary to have a PartP for this work. They told my husband "His line is that they do not have to supply a part p for circuits they did not fit,they do so for the ones they did fit. Further, the safety of the new circuit board will have been tested, and so long as there are no recommendations then the circuits in the rest of the house pass muster. However for a part p, that would have involved testing sockets etc. which was not their job at the time. He recommends a ‘Periodic Inspection’ which would be about £160 – but they don’t do them"
Then I checked to see who the electrician was registered with and his company name is not showing up on this website:
http://www.competentperson.co.uk/search.asp
I spoke to Core and Ore again today who say that they will get the electrician to explain it to me in 'layman's terms'.
So before I embarrass nyself could someone explain this to me in layman's terms?
What should it say on the Part P?
Thanks
Anne Marie

 

[annemarie]

At thetime of the consumer unit change the electrician did point out that very usually there was a switch for the shower beside the consumer unit. There is no pull-cord in the bathroom. He said this was wrong but didn't offer to change it.
I suspect that he may have known that the electrics in the house were not right but didn't want to take the time to check it/fix it. We thought all was well and I am annoyed because we should have been made aware of problems but perhaps I am expecting too much.

 

[nozspark]

First off you may find that the kitchen contractor is not part P registered, but that the electrician that they sub contracted the work out to is!!

Secondly you should have had 2 certificates -

a) an Electrical Installation Certificate (possibly a "Domestic" one) of the electrical contractor
b) a Part P completion certificate from their scheme body (ELECSA, NICEIC etc..) or off your local area building control (LABC / council)

If they replaced your consumer unit and connected all your existing circuits to it then they should have carried out a full test and inspection of your entire electrical installation, all serious faults should have been rectified!!

If they only addded a second CU then they should have checked/upgraded your main earth and earth bonding to your water & gas supplies. Any new CU should be labled up.

 

[annemarie]

Thank you. No they definitely changed the CU and connected all existing circuits.
The certificate was a Kewtech one- which you can buy on ebay. And the electricians tading name was "K Martin" with an address in Cardiff. I can find no K Martin registered as a competent person in Cardiff.

Anyway I am still waiting for K Martin- who is Kevin it seems- to contact me to explain this in lay-man's terms.

Thanks again

 

[annemarie]

If an electrician uses a Kewtech certificate how do you know which body they are registered with?

 

[annemarie]

It seems that Mr Martin is away from the house at the moment and will contact me on Monday about the paperwork. Core and Ore wished to assure me that they sub-contract to this electrician all the time... 8 or 10 jobs a month.... and that they are not cowboys. He used that term before me. But he doesn't know who the electician is registered with either.

Just to 100% clarify... what reference should there be to the new CU On the part P certificates? It only details testing for the new circuits. The electrician we have contacted about the new shower says that it should specify testing of all circuits because of the addition of the CU. Is that correct?

We've been without a shower for more than a month- these people are slippery

 

[Spark123]

You should have at least 3 parts of a certificate for a replacement CU. There should be an Electrical Installation Certificate, a Schedule of Inspections and a Schedule of Test Results.
These should be for ALL the circuits which are connected to it, not just the ones he has installed.

Have you received anything through the post from your Local Authority Building Control?

 

[annemarie]

Thank you. I don't have it in front of me but know that there are only 2 pages of Part P documentation. And no we haven't received anything from the local authority. Should we?

 

[Spark123]

I don't know what you have received, an EIC needs to be issued in order to comply with BS7671. This does not automatically comply with part p.

What I believe is meant to happen is the electrician notifies your LABC via his self certification scheme (NICEIC / NAPIT / ECA / ELECSA etc), you should then receive something through the post. Not sure if it is from the LABC or the scheme, maybe someone else can clarify?

 

[annemarie]

I'm pretty sure that this link shows the kind of certificate we received... just 2 pages and no mention of a change of consumer unit.
http://www.pat-services.co.uk/kewtech-electrical-installation-certificate-706.htm

 

[Cremeegg]

For a new consumer unit you should have an Electrical Installation Certificate. British Standard BS7671 details what tests are required and what must be on the form - it even goes so far as to provide model forms.

However - there is no standard form design - you can use the one in BS7671; or one provided by electrical test equipment suppliers such as Kewtech; or one from your Part P provider such as NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA; or one you've got off EBay from someone that's handy with Word or Excel; or one you've designed yourself. They are all a bit different in design but will typically run to 3, 4 or 5 pages.

If the electrician is registered with one of the Part P scheme providers they will be on the competent person website - in my experience it is no more than a week out of date at any time. It may be that "Kevin" isn't but the company that he works for or trades as is registered.

If he is registered - on completion of the works Kevin notifies his Part P provider of the works undertaken and certifies to them that the works comply with Part P of the Building Regulations. The scheme provider then firstly notifies your local council of the works undertaken at your property and secondly sends you a Certificate of Compliance which states that the scheme member below declares that the installation at your address complies with Building Regs.

This is a single page certificate - a NAPIT one I have in front of me is A5 sized.

In my experience you should be getting your Certificate within about a week of the Scheme Provider being notified.

This sorry sage is sadly all too typical of kitchen fitters. If Kevin isn't Part P registered then he needs to notify your local council who will come and inspect and test the works. This will cost £100 - £350. Getting Part P registered is around £350 so if he is doing 8-10 jobs a month (all of which are notifiable by dint of being in a kitchen) it's a no brainer economically to get registered.

Hope this helps

 

[Cremeegg]

The Kewtech ones are OK and appear to squeeze everything onto two pages. They wouldnt be big enough for the larger domestic jobs. Personally I prefer to have my companies name all over the certificates or at least my scheme providers rather than Kewtechs. Dont see why I should advertise them even if I do use some of their other products.

 

[nozspark]

Annemarie,

Just to clarify things for you, that Kewtec certificate is not a Part P certificate (Part P certificates are issued by NICEIC, ELECSA, NAPIT, your LABC etc... AND ARRIVE IN THE POST - mine come from NICEIC) the certificate that you have is a domestic electrical installation certificate. Personally I find the title to that certificate very misleading


Also to reiterate, all the circuits that are connected to a new consumer unit (wether old or new) need to be inspected, tested and the results noted on the certificate. All new consumer units should also come with a durable schedule of circuits and should be labled up correctly.

PLEASE could you scan you certs (blanking off any personal details) and post it here, also a photo of your consumer unit and surrounding area would be nice

 

[annemarie]

If we had just had any old kitchen installer doing this then I wouldn't be surprised. But the 3 people who turned up to the house to do the plumbing/electrics/installation were sub-contracted to Core and Ore who have the contract for installation for IKEA for Wales and South West at least.
(The oak worktop split a few weeks after installation and this was easily resolved- photos to IKEA and new worktop delivered and someone to install it within a few weeks.)
We paid a premium for this service so that we would have all teh work done at one time and by someone who we could trust!
Ovbiously the work has not been reported to anyone as we have received nothing in the post.
I strongly suspect Core and Ore have sub-contracted cowboys... but hopefully we will get it sorted.
I will try and get the scans done and the pics uploaded over the weekend. I want to be armed with good information when this electrician calls me to 'explain it in layman's terms'.

 

[comms]

If the electrician is registered with one of the Part P scheme providers they will be on the competent person website

Not always they wont be.
I've been registered with the NICEIC for 4 years & haven't appeared on the site mentioned from day one.
Having called NICEIC they say the details have been passed on every year but the site operators dont always update.

Better to go directly to one of the scheme operators sites & search.