Paypal what is the point

[Softus]

A lot of quotes

Your point being...?

 

[Thermo]

theres a lot of quotes.....read the damn post man! Dont you understand the queens adulterated english!

 

[chainsaw_masochist]

A lot of quotes

Your point being...?

My original point was that Paypal movied from Britain so that they would operate outside the scrutiny of the FSA (UK). It may be the case that Paypal, as your Wikipedia reference indicates, falls under the jurisdiction of the Luxumbourg equivalent of the FSA (UK). It would, nevertheless, seem to leave a lot of its users - at least the British users - far from satisfied.

 

[Softus]

My original point was that Paypal movied from Britain so that they would operate outside the scrutiny of the FSA (UK).

I understand people wanting to believe that that was the motive, but is there any substance in this claim?

It may be the case that Paypal, as your Wikipedia reference indicates, falls under the jurisdiction of the Luxumbourg equivalent of the FSA (UK). It would, nevertheless, seem to leave a lot of its users - at least the British users - far from satisfied.

I have no idea how many successful and whinge-free PayPal transactions are conducted each day - I imagine there being thousands.

Against that, there are perhaps tens of moaning gits who post their woes on the Internet instead of getting their finger out and doing something about it. As a percentage, that's a pretty good success rate.

My personal experience of PayPal has been merely two poor experiences in at least eight years of using it. Both times, with persistence, I obtained the correct and fair financial resolution.

 

[chainsaw_masochist]

My original point was that Paypal movied from Britain so that they would operate outside the scrutiny of the FSA (UK).

I understand people wanting to believe that that was the motive, but is there any substance in this claim?

Well, I for one certainly do not want to believe that this was the motive. Indeed, I would be very happy to know that Paypal operate within the strictures of financial probity (European or otherwise). I was aware that at the time of Paypal's relocation there was a crescendo of complaints following Paypal's relocation. This seems to have abated little in the ensuing period.

It may be the case that Paypal, as your Wikipedia reference indicates, falls under the jurisdiction of the Luxumbourg equivalent of the FSA (UK). It would, nevertheless, seem to leave a lot of its users - at least the British users - far from satisfied.

I have no idea how many successful and whinge-free PayPal transactions are conducted each day - I imagine there being thousands.

Against that, there are perhaps tens of moaning gits who post their woes on the Internet instead of getting their finger out and doing something about it. As a percentage, that's a pretty good success rate.

My personal experience of PayPal has been merely two poor experiences in at least eight years of using it. Both times, with persistence, I obtained the correct and fair financial resolution.

I accept the point about moaning gits. I am glad to hear of your relatively trouble-free experiiences. Were either of the poor experiences after Paypal's relocation, though?

 

[Softus]

I am glad to hear of your relatively trouble-free experiiences. Were either of the poor experiences after Paypal's relocation, though?

AFAIK one was before the move and one was after.

On the second occasion I talked to someone in the UK office and they resolved it. It did involve some tenacity on my part though.

 

[JohnD]

Emails are handled by a fobbing-off department which sends unhelpful standard replies with the intention of wearing you down so you give up.

It did involve some tenacity on my part though.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

chainsaw_masochist wrote:
JohnD wrote:

But surely you can't take a Luxembourg company to the UK Small Claims court


Quite right. The whole point of Paypal moving from Britain was so that they would be outside the scrutiny of the FSA.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fsa-outside

From http://www.tamebay.com/2007/05/paypal-becomes-a-bank-no-longer-under-fsa.html[/b][quote]

PayPal becomes a Bank, no longer under FSA
by Chris Dawson
This post was written in May 2007; specific information contained within it may be out of date.
PayPal announced this morning they are to become a bank headquartered in Luxembourg known as PayPal Europe Sàrl & Cie, SCA (PayPal Luxembourg). All European PayPal accounts will be transferred to the new Bank on 2nd July.

The Bank of PayPal should gain a huge boost in momentum against their nearest competitors which in the UK are Nochex and more recently Google Checkout. Nochex has remained a smaller player, although popular - Checkout is merely a “Checkout flow for existing payment methods”. The irony is in the near future it could be possible to click through Google Checkout with your PayPal bank card - it’s already possible to use Google Checkout with your PayPal credit card (although it’s an affiliate card though GE Capital Bank Limited). Many larger retailers don’t accept PayPal services but the change from an electronic money issuer to a banking institution could make them a more attractive proposition.

The change also means that they’ll no longer be regulated by the FSA but will be regulated as a bank by the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF), the Luxembourg equivalent of the FSA.
It remains to be seen which services will be affected by the changes. The despised ten day clearing time for eCheques should clear more promptly. PayPal Website Payments Pro (very similar to a full merchant account) may become more attractive to large retailers. PayPal will also have more flexibility to introduce new features such as debit cards allowing you to spend funds held in your PayPal account.

[/QUOTE]
Indeed.

It turns out that the claim on PayPal's website which claims that they are regulated by the FSA is bogus - if you search for registration number 226056 here: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/ you find out the truth.

I knew that PayPal were pretty disreputable, but I never thought they would lie about their FSA status.

I wonder what the legal position is regarding eBay forcing people to use a non-UK financial institution which is not regulated by the FSA?

 

[Softus]

Emails are handled by a fobbing-off department which sends unhelpful standard replies with the intention of wearing you down so you give up.

It did involve some tenacity on my part though.

Those two statements are not related.

 

[securespark]

Think the point JD is making is that you were passed through to the same fobbing-off dept. that he was, hence your need for tenacity to get the desired result...

 

[Bodgeit and scarper ltd]

Been on the phone to paypal. They said they paid me but when they tried to get the money from XXX he had no money in his bank account as its not up to paypal to lose out they took the money back from me. He has done this before but under new e-bay rules you cannot leave bad feedback to a buyer. I phoned e-bay to ask if paypal were the same company and they said no but they are both owned by the same people. I also asked if he thought paypal had scammed me, he said they don’t normally scam people on small amounts.

 

[Softus]

Think the point JD is making is that you were passed through to the same fobbing-off dept. that he was

You might think that he might think that, but that wasn't what happened to me.

I merely disagreed with PayPal, quite amicably, on a contractual point, and sent them a 'letter before proceedings' to notify them of impending court action for breach of contract.

That seemed to bring them around to my way of thinking quite quickly, and there was no trouble after that.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Go to the police, and report xxx for theft.

 

[Softus]

Go to the police, and report xxx for theft.

Don't be so utterly ridiculous; this is a simple breach of contract.

If you can show that the buyer never intended to pay you then of course it's fraud, but what evidence do you have to support that?

 

[Softus]

It turns out that the claim on PayPal's website which claims that they are regulated by the FSA is bogus - if you search for registration number 226056 here: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/ you find out the truth.

I knew that PayPal were pretty disreputable, but I never thought they would lie about their FSA status.

I was curious about this, so I Emailed PayPal about it. Here's the reply.

Dear <name withheld>


Thank you for contacting PayPal, my name is <name withheld> and I appreciate the
opportunity to assist you today with regard to your enquiry about PayPal
operations.

First and foremost, I would like to extend my sincerest apologies for the
inconvenience you have experienced in this matter.

I understand that you are asking if PayPal is registered with FSA. Please
allow me to inform you that PayPal is operating under the supervision of
Financial Service Authority, a British agency that grants PayPal our
Electronic Money Institution license to operate in the United Kingdom.
PayPal may not be a bank but it still is working like one as it is a medium
of transferring one account's money to another.

We at PayPal Customer Service take pride in handling our customers with
utmost care. Thank you for using PayPal. We hope for your continued support
and trust in us.


Sincerely,
<name withheld>
PayPal European Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

Copyright © 1999-2008 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l.
& Cie, S.C.A. Société en Commandite par Actions. Registered Office: 5th
Floor, 22-24 Boulevard Royal, L-2449, Luxembourg, RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

As you might expect, I didn't leave it there.

Here's my reply to that reply.

Dear <name withheld>

Thank you for your fast reply.

I'm interested in your assertion that "PayPal is operating under the supervision of Financial Service Authority". I note that you have not asserted that PayPal is registered with the FSA.

I have also read the information on the following PayPal web page:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/fsa-outside

On that web page, it states the following:

PayPal (Europe) Ltd. is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an electronic money institution. PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056.

I have also visited the FSA web site at the following URL:
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do

I have entered the registration number that is published by PayPal, and this yields the following information:

Basic details for:
226056 - Paypal (Europe) Ltd

Current status: No longer Authorised
Effective Date: 04/07/2007

So it appears that the information you've provided is in conflict with the information on the FSA web site. This might be a mistake, but it's a seriously misleading one, and one that should be corrected without any further delay.

Frankly, I don't yet know who I'm going to believe, but it's only fair to tell you that that it's unlikely to be PayPal. Do you have any comment to make on this before I report the situation to the FSA and to the UK Police?

Regards
<name withheld>