Periodic Inspection had a sneak view

[oharaf]

Took a sneak view at a rented property today, occupied by a couple and their 3 small children.

Just for starters

1. No RCD protection to sockets or shower
2. shower supply undersize, MCB under rated
3. Down stairs lughts not working
4. 5 broken sockets hanging from walls, previously mounted on surface
patresses

I dread to think what else i will find

My question thou is, exposed live parts and dangerous installations, can i disconnect these???

From what I can glean the property has not been tested in at least 5 years, I am very worried about the people in the property particularly the children

 

[Spark123]

You can disconnect if the owner gives you permission to do so.

 

[Lectrician]

The NIC say "you should arrange with the owner to remove the immediate danger" or words to that effect.

You cannot just disconnect things without getting the owners consent.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I disagree.

There comes a point where your general duty of care to third parties takes precedence over the niceties of no specific regulations allowing you to disconnect and therefore "needing" authorisation.

Dangers like that with 3 small children in the house?

Call the EHO, disconnect, and tell the owner you'll be delighted to see him in court if he wants to protest about your actions.

 

[MalcofArabia]

Have to agree with BaS on that

In the ESC guide to PIR on page 8 it states that for a code 1, which is what they are

The persons using the installation are at risk. The
person ordering the report should be advised to take
action without delay to remedy the observed
deficiency in the installation, or to take other
appropriate action (such as switching off and
isolating the affected parts of the installation) to
remove the danger. The inspector should not wait for
the full report to be issued before giving this advice.

I think that is quite clear and I would do just that.

 

[STI]

Although i agree with both BAS and MOA s' sentiments I dont think the passage MOA has posted actually says you as the inspector can disconnect etc. I read it as it says you must notify the person who commissioned the work and they should act quickly.

I think you need to get the permission as earlier posters stated.

That said i would disconnect in a serious situation like this without permission and explain why immediately to the commissioner.

 

[MalcofArabia]

Your quite right it doesn't give you authority to turn it off without the landlords permission, but as the BaS rightly says sod him if he wants to bleat about it let him.

I would tell him what i was doing, why I was doing it, issue him a danger electrical notice you can get, and if he wanted to turn it back on he is quite welcome to.

 

[Chri5]

Can you not agree thats as part of the PIR immediate action can be taken to replace the socket and boxes ?

Better still why not offer a verbal pre PIR report on the suspected code 1's and see if the client will accept the remedial on a see it, fix it basis.

Photo evidence pre and post work if there's any suggestion of mistrust.

 

[oharaf]

cheers chaps, I had read that passage in the guide to PIR, but still did not feel it was saying it allowed me to disconnect.

However I do have the sentiment of 'SOD IT' and turning off, this would leave the family with no sockets or shower and very few lights!!

If I call the EHO how quickly would they respond?

I will try and call the owner tomorrow and get find and fix basis, thou the shower I could see proving difficult.

If she won't then will caal EHO, have heard they mat possibly already be aware

am I correct in thinking that in Rented accommodation all sockets and showers should be RCD protected, no matter what?

 

[skenk]

For private tenancies (ie not HMO) there are no additional rules with regard to the electrics. However the responsibility for the safety of the installation and any equipment supplied with the tenancy lies with the landlord. As a landlord to CYA you can get PIR's and PAT done but there is no requirement for this (some letting agencies wont take you without it). If you WANT, you can run the risk and get sued etc. if someone dies in your slum from the broken socket etc.

Pretty sure it's the same in England as Scotland.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

cheers chaps, I had read that passage in the guide to PIR, but still did not feel it was saying it allowed me to disconnect.

There's nothing anywhere which says you're allowed to break down a door to rescue someone from a fire either.

 

[dingbat]

...am I correct in thinking that in Rented accommodation all sockets and showers should be RCD protected, no matter what?

No. BS 7671 makes no such demand.

However, depending on the type of tenant there may be local authority licensing requirements, which should be complied with. (I doubt very much, however, that this would include the retrospective provision of RCDs.)

 

[ericmark]

If the DNO want to turn off the power to a residence then they have to ensure there is alternative accommodation. It is considered that without lighting and heating a residence is not inhabitable and you are not permitted to make a house uninhabitable without alternative accommodation.

This is therefore completely different to a commercial premises where you are required to turn off dangerous circuits.

The problem is during testing you will need to turn off circuits and this will be done with permission of occupants. But to re-energise the circuits would place you in a position where you could be held responsible. I have said in the past where I have found myself in such a situation "Sorry I can't switch the circuits back one they need attention first but neither can I stop you re-energising the circuit but if you do any injuries caused will be your responsibility" Not ideal but it is the only way I can see around the problem.

With rented accommodation then you must of course report to landlord and this must be in writing (health and softy law requires it) however a text message or email would comply and I would follow up with a phone call.

I have in the past seen installations where I realise they do not comply and I have said when asked to work on them. "Are you sure if I find it does not comply I may be forced to turn off supply" But one does have to be very careful what you say as if you are aware of a hazard then you must under health and safety law act. So to say you know you will need to fail it places you wrong side of law.

I have also been caught where I have reported faults and then been given permission to fix it. So unless you can arrange for a hotel overnight you are duty bound to make safe and habitable before you leave. As a result one can end up into the small hours before you can leave.

I have seen where gas men have found faults and turned off the gas. To comply with the law they must find alternative accommodation and they may need to contact social services to do this. It is illegal not to find alternative accommodation so one can be really in a fix.

 

[ericmark]

cheers chaps, I had read that passage in the guide to PIR, but still did not feel it was saying it allowed me to disconnect.

There's nothing anywhere which says you're allowed to break down a door to rescue someone from a fire either.

Yes there is. If you need to break the law to stop a greater crime from being committed then it is allowed and not considered as breaking the law.

So if after a bank robbery I was to block the road with my car to stop the guys getting away I would no be considered as committing a crime even if the road was a clearway.

I would make sure you are armed with numbers for social services and make sure you do the work at a time when something can be done. i.e. don't wait until 3:00pm on a Friday before phoning them.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes there is. If you need to break the law to stop a greater crime from being committed then it is allowed and not considered as breaking the law.

What crime is being committed by someone being trapped in a fire?