Petrol and diesel prices

[Ihavenojob]

With prices at the pumps rising at an almost daily rate, the Government are getting a nice little windfall in extra taxes. Should the Government implement a "windfall tax" on itself by reducing income tax ? They tried cutting fuel duty, but who saw any benefit (apart from fuel companies)?

 

[conny]

Price of diesel at ASDA on Tuesday last week was £181.7
On Wednesday last week it jumped 2p to £183.7
On Saturday it had jumped a further 5p to £188.7

In light of recent media talk, that suppliers don't appear to be passing on the cut in fuel duty to customers, I think, (call me cynical), that this sudden jump will fall back by this 5p over the next couple of weeks so they can say they are passing the cut on. But what about all the small increases over the past weeks after the fuel duty cut was announced? Can no-one in government see what they were doing or are they happy to turn a blind eye to it and then claim they forced the suppliers to reduce the cost accordingly?

 

[ajohn]

The taxes on fuel are %'s not pennies. Struck me that the 5p related to these % could be gobbled up rather quickly due to crude price increases and the processed stuff that imported as well.

There is 5% tax on crude and vat is 20%. I gallon of crude wont produce 1 gallon of fuel either.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

The increases in prices that we are currently suffering are due to the £400 billion of extra money created during the covid period. Rising fuel prices affect everything else that we buy, and so we will all slowly go broke. If the government were concerned about rising petrol prices it could do many things, least of all cut out the green levies that are taken from fuel and stop putting ethanol in petrol. But no, they would sooner see people starve and lose their homes. Don't be fooled, the government hates you.

 

[Bod ...]

The increases in prices that we are currently suffering are due to the £400 billion of extra money created during the covid period. Rising fuel prices affect everything else that we buy, and so we will all slowly go broke. If the government were concerned about rising petrol prices it could do many things, least of all cut out the green levies that are taken from fuel and stop putting ethanol in petrol. But no, they would sooner see people starve and lose their homes. Don't be fooled, the government hates you.

You must really have a hard time when the elections come round every 4 years.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

You must really have a hard time when the elections come round every 4 years.

I didn't vote in the last two, it's pointless, we need a revolution. The political class, labour and conservative, is killing us.

They have got into so much debt that they cannot repay it. The only way out for them is to make the money less valuable, which makes us all pay more. Rising prices do not cause inflation - inflation (created by governments) causes rising prices.

The same is happening in America, so don't let them tell you it's due to Brexit.

 

[noseall]

I didn't vote in the last two, it's pointless, we need a revolution. The political class, labour and conservative, is killing us.

They have got into so much debt that they cannot repay it. The only way out for them is to make the money less valuable, which makes us all pay more. Rising prices do not cause inflation - inflation (created by governments) causes rising prices.

The same is happening in America, so don't let them tell you it's due to Brexit.

Tucker...on Fox..really? FFS andy, you are so far gone boyo.

 

[ajohn]

The increases in prices that we are currently suffering are due to the £400 billion of extra money created during the covid period.

Not to the extent you seem to think

1. The macro-economic effects of QE are naturally a key interest to policymakers. While this literature is subject to greater identification challenges, studies of the effects of QE tend to find meaningful impacts on both GDP and inflation. The Bank’s work suggested that the initial £200 billion of QE in the UK may have pushed up on the level of GDP by a peak of 1.5%-2% and on inflation by 0.75%-1.5% (Joyce, Tong and Woods (2011)). Later work by Weale and Wieladek (2016) found that both the US and UK’s QE programmes raised GDP materially. Haldane et al (2016) found that QE programmes in the US and UK appear to have had both a positive and significant impact on activity and inflation. While it is too soon to estimate the macro-economic impact of the Bank’s most recent QE programme, Ramsden (2021) notes the crucial role of the MPC’s initial £200 billion of QE in March 2020 to restore market functioning, without which an unwarranted tightening of monetary and financial conditions could have led to an even sharper contraction in UK GDP.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/23385/html/

It does cause some inflation which increases GDP. The price rises we are seeing now have nothing to do with it. They are purely down to supply and demand, The BE interest rates can be kept low as well - this is supposed to increase investment.

 

[Vinty]

t. The only way out for them is to make the money less valuable

A tried and tested way for governments to reduce debt.
Its only money.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Tucker...on Fox..really? FFS andy, you are so far gone boyo.

Thought you'd like that! I'll try to find some more for you.

It does cause some inflation which increases GDP

Printing money doesn't cause inflation, it is inflation.

The price rises we are seeing now have nothing to do with it. They are purely down to supply and demand,

Yes, the demand caused by the new money printed.

A tried and tested way for governments to reduce debt.

Correct, but it is theft, they are robbing all of us.

 

[ajohn]

Printing money doesn't cause inflation, it is inflation.

Were do they put it after it's printed. What's the value on the notes, £5, £10 or ????

Your a dummy that clearly does not know what they actually do. Covid debt has it's interesting aspects as well. Business debt is dramatic. Just like the UK debt - very high since the banking crisis. Ok covid shoved it up a bit but that is all.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Were do they put it after it's printed. What's the value on the notes, £5, £10 or ????

It is created from nothing; simply written as a figure and given as a loan. The borrower may pay it back in 50, 60 or 100 years' time, but it still originated out of nothing. The money didn't exist before. The borrower can transact it in any denomination he likes, and because to him it is new money, he becomes rich by buying goods with it at current prices, before the money inflation has put the prices up.

It is simple and classic economics. The true meaning of inflation is to increase (the money supply) in size. That meaning, like a lot of others, has been obscured over the years, by governments trying to hide what they are doing.

Inflation is a government economic policy decision. They just call it QE now.

 

[ajohn]

Inflation is a government economic policy decision.

Correct they aim for a certain amount of it. Deflation is evil as they see it as gdp reduces which implies a country isn't doing well.

QE is something else for panics and adds emergency base rates. In my view once the interest rates get to extremely low levels it's hard to get out of it and when external forces set inflation rates increasing base rates to try and reduce it are unlikely to work out. The BE study I posted did show that there was slight real growth over inflation levels. TBH though I think it's a stupid idea as the untralow interest rates didn't appear to do anything of real use. Sure house prices can go up etc but that is not what is needed,

The real signs of inflation problems in the west involves looking at currency value variations.

The pre vat price of petrol at the beginning of the year was ~121.4 / litre. It's currently ~155.5 / litre. QE has absolutely nothing to do with that. On the face of it the vat take per litre has gone from 24.3p to 31.1p. 7p difference and they reckon they have reduced tax by 5p / litre. If you look at petrol on this graph the odd behaviour is probably when that was gobbled up

UK pump prices over time

This chart tracks the changes in petrol and diesel prices over time (weekly on a Monday, rolling ten year period) and is based on BEIS data published each Tuesd

www.racfoundation.org

 

[Android 07]

It's a way of reducing the number of vehicles on the road and making people use public transport again. Clever tactics!

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Correct they aim for a certain amount of it. (inflation)

Still, it is money from nothing, or rather a slice of everybody who has any savings's money. By devaluing the currency it makes everyone pay more, thereby destroying people's savings. You could look at it as an act of communism, in that it is redistributing wealth locked up in savings accounts, or you could see it for what it is: a very large scale act of theft.

The real signs of inflation problems in the west involves looking at currency value variations.

Yes, when set against a currency that hasn't been inflated or has been inflated less. This is why petrol and other fuels are rising in prices - our currency is falling, by dint of inflation, in comparison with the currencies of the countries we buy from. Those countries want the proper price for their goods, not our toytown money.

Inflation is not inevitable, it is a deliberate policy decision made by desperate governments. For much of the 1800s there was no inflation; you paid the same price for an item as you did 50 years previously. This was when we made things in our own factories and mined our own fuel. Now we have nothing, and so the government robs savers of their hard earned. It doesn't have to be this way.