hi everybody.now where to start!i live in an end of terrace house with a strip of land approx 12' wide at the side which is currently being used as a car port.i want to build a two-storey extension there and i consulted two locally well-established builders who said they couldn't see a problem with planning.obviously they're not planners,but they have a good working knowledge of what's likely to pass and what's not.we then had a professional draw up and submit our plans,who also thought we'd have no problems.can you see where i'm going with this!!just heard today that the plans have failed because "the proposed extension by virtue of it's combined height and proximity to the boundary of the dwellinghouse will appear unduly prominent and result in a loss of space at first floor level that would lead to a cramped form of development detrimental to the appearance of the streetscene and character of the area contrary to the objectives of policies QL1 of Kent and Medway Structure Plan 2006 and BNE1 of the Medway local plan 2003"phew!our agent says appeal straight away,but this can take 7 months,our other option is to submit revised plans,maybe staggering the extension.would value any advice re what's the best course of action.thanks,sorry for the overlong post.
planning
- Thread starter jakman
- Start date
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staggering back seems to satisfy the bod's at planning.
i built my own and did not set mine back. but, i am the first in the row and i am next door to an open space.
a colleague of mine disagreed with the planners, regards having to set back and won.
i think if you set out your reasons arguing for your proposal then go for it. you are within your rights to at least make a plea for more space, and why not!
i built my own and did not set mine back. but, i am the first in the row and i am next door to an open space.
a colleague of mine disagreed with the planners, regards having to set back and won.
i think if you set out your reasons arguing for your proposal then go for it. you are within your rights to at least make a plea for more space, and why not!
I would speak to the case officer in question and ask them what would satisfy them, just be aware that they can be very evasive you may have to make the suggestions to them to get anything near a straight answer.
Has anyone else done something similar in your road.
It is very unusaual nowadays for planners to not comply with either government or local plan making it very hard to succesfully appeal a straight forward extension like this. My guesss is that some sort of compromise will be needed, sometimes this can be very small. I have been backwards and forwards with the planners on a development of my own and the final thing we had to do was to reduce a single storey extension by 500mm (yes 500mm) in length to satisfy them, I think just so they could have the final say.
Has anyone else done something similar in your road.
It is very unusaual nowadays for planners to not comply with either government or local plan making it very hard to succesfully appeal a straight forward extension like this. My guesss is that some sort of compromise will be needed, sometimes this can be very small. I have been backwards and forwards with the planners on a development of my own and the final thing we had to do was to reduce a single storey extension by 500mm (yes 500mm) in length to satisfy them, I think just so they could have the final say.
Surely your agent would know how to meet the local plan requirements?
You should appeal and resubmit a revised scheme - your resubmission would be free.
Presumably this end terrace must be next to another building, as otherwise the reason for refusal would not make sense?
If it is adjacent to another building, then your agent should have been aware of the local plan - in particular terracing effect and boundary space requirements
Get hold of the planning officers report under a FOI request to the council
You should appeal and resubmit a revised scheme - your resubmission would be free.
Presumably this end terrace must be next to another building, as otherwise the reason for refusal would not make sense?
If it is adjacent to another building, then your agent should have been aware of the local plan - in particular terracing effect and boundary space requirements
Get hold of the planning officers report under a FOI request to the council
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A good designer should contact the planners a few weeks before the decision date to gauge the planners' opinion and as to whether it it is likely to pass or not, at that point it can usually be ascertained what needs to be done to satisfy planning. I do this with my PJ's although my boss dosn't always do it with the company's jobs lol. As mentioned have a meeting with them (you and your designer) and resubmit a revised application that will get planning, you may not need to change much anyway. Apeal only after some sound advise, it can be extremely costly unless you know planning inside-out and experience has taught me that it is not always fair even then.
thanks for your replies everyone,some food for thought there.our agent is chasing up the case officer,with no luck at the moment,when he gets hold of him he's going to ask what revisions we need to make to get it passed.
our house is not adjacent to another,we're the end house on a row of five,then there's a space at the side which is our car port at the moment, and will be where the extension will be should our application be successful,and then the pavement,so there's no issue with terracing,which makes some of the reasons for refusal nonsense.
thanks again,will keep you posted.
our house is not adjacent to another,we're the end house on a row of five,then there's a space at the side which is our car port at the moment, and will be where the extension will be should our application be successful,and then the pavement,so there's no issue with terracing,which makes some of the reasons for refusal nonsense.
thanks again,will keep you posted.
I recall doing some plans for a two-storey side extension on house on an estate of typical small modern box houses - some detached and some semi's.
This was an end property with a wide road at the front and side, and opposite was a field. The essence was that there was lots of space.
Anyway, I did the normal step back from the front, lower ridge and even stepped it in from the boundary. It seemed perfectly well designed and even had some 3-d colour perspectives to show how things would look when it was built. And it fitted in with the councils design requirements.
It got refused for being too dominant in the street scene etc.
Speaking with the planner, she should not actually articulate what was wrong with it, and could only speak in vague planning speak - and I really mean that she could not define what was actually wrong with it!
Bottom line, is that to "remove the dominance" and make it "fit in" all that had to be done was for the roof to be semi-hipped.
That was fine, except for the fact that the rest of the estate has nice pointed gables to resemble period properties, and now there is an ugly semi-hipped roof which actually stands out more than anything.
In this case, an appeal was not necessary as the clients still got the internal space which they wanted, and I just advised them not to look up
But I would never have dreamed of submitting a design that was so alien.
So I guess sometimes, its best to smoke what the planners do
This was an end property with a wide road at the front and side, and opposite was a field. The essence was that there was lots of space.
Anyway, I did the normal step back from the front, lower ridge and even stepped it in from the boundary. It seemed perfectly well designed and even had some 3-d colour perspectives to show how things would look when it was built. And it fitted in with the councils design requirements.
It got refused for being too dominant in the street scene etc.
Speaking with the planner, she should not actually articulate what was wrong with it, and could only speak in vague planning speak - and I really mean that she could not define what was actually wrong with it!
Bottom line, is that to "remove the dominance" and make it "fit in" all that had to be done was for the roof to be semi-hipped.
That was fine, except for the fact that the rest of the estate has nice pointed gables to resemble period properties, and now there is an ugly semi-hipped roof which actually stands out more than anything.
In this case, an appeal was not necessary as the clients still got the internal space which they wanted, and I just advised them not to look up
But I would never have dreamed of submitting a design that was so alien.
So I guess sometimes, its best to smoke what the planners do
hi thanks for all your invaluable replies,you've given me more helpful advice than anyone we've spoken to,and here's an update:we obtained a copy of the planners report,it's quite long,but here's the relevant bits:
"there are other extensions in the vicinity on end of terrace properties,and in this regard the principle of an extension to the side is considered acceptable.however other extensions in the vicinity are single storey or if two storey set in from the boundary,retaining a degree of spacing at first floor level away from the footway.the extension proposed in this application will be built up to the boundary and it is considered that this will significantly reduce spacing in a part of the street which has an open character to it.the proposal will significantly reduce this sense of openness leading to a cramped street scene and therefore considered to be detrimental to the street scene and the character of the whole area.in terms of design whilst the materials proposed will suitably match those of the existing dwelling the combined matching of ridge height and width of the extension will not appear subserviant to the main dwelling and as a result it is considered that the extension will appear overly prominent when viewed from surrounding properties."whew!our agent is meeting with the planning officer today(hopefully)but to be honest we're not at all hopeful that this extension is going to happen now as it just seems they've made their minds up.as always i'd welcome any ideas and thanks again for your valued input.
"there are other extensions in the vicinity on end of terrace properties,and in this regard the principle of an extension to the side is considered acceptable.however other extensions in the vicinity are single storey or if two storey set in from the boundary,retaining a degree of spacing at first floor level away from the footway.the extension proposed in this application will be built up to the boundary and it is considered that this will significantly reduce spacing in a part of the street which has an open character to it.the proposal will significantly reduce this sense of openness leading to a cramped street scene and therefore considered to be detrimental to the street scene and the character of the whole area.in terms of design whilst the materials proposed will suitably match those of the existing dwelling the combined matching of ridge height and width of the extension will not appear subserviant to the main dwelling and as a result it is considered that the extension will appear overly prominent when viewed from surrounding properties."whew!our agent is meeting with the planning officer today(hopefully)but to be honest we're not at all hopeful that this extension is going to happen now as it just seems they've made their minds up.as always i'd welcome any ideas and thanks again for your valued input.
Hi Jakman, reading the text of the report you've posted it would seem to me that if you re-submit with the extension stepped in from your boundary, stepped in from the front and rear walls of your existing house and drop the eaves a bit and it sounds like you stand a chance. Other than the size of the extension they appear happy with your choice of materials and the principle of a 2-storey extension and they make no other reference to the overall design so i would assume they are happy with that too?
Your agent should be able to sort you an amended drawing but i'd suggest stepping in from the boundary 300mm, in from the front and rear walls 150mm and lower the eaves by 150mm (the ridge will be even lower as you're reducing the width of the gable). The planners may ask for more but at least you've start the compromise! As previously stated, as long as you don't hang about for 1 year you'll get a 'free go' when you re-submit and this time, speak to the officer dealing with the application about two weeks before the target decision date. You could probably have submitted an amended plan and got it approved this time around but they'll want to hit their 8-week deadline so if you leave it until the last couple of days they'll process the decision without discussion!!
Your agent should be able to sort you an amended drawing but i'd suggest stepping in from the boundary 300mm, in from the front and rear walls 150mm and lower the eaves by 150mm (the ridge will be even lower as you're reducing the width of the gable). The planners may ask for more but at least you've start the compromise! As previously stated, as long as you don't hang about for 1 year you'll get a 'free go' when you re-submit and this time, speak to the officer dealing with the application about two weeks before the target decision date. You could probably have submitted an amended plan and got it approved this time around but they'll want to hit their 8-week deadline so if you leave it until the last couple of days they'll process the decision without discussion!!
I know every planning dept/officer will take their own view on the guidelines but we have just obtained planning for a side extension (within a conservation area) and had similar issues in that the planning officer wasn't keen to see a side extension.
The main point of their objection to our original scheme was that it wasnt subservant to the main house ie that it looked smaller to the existing house (our existing house isnt that big from the front!). this is despite the extension being building in traditional materials to match the existing building.
In the end, we dropped the ridgeline of the extension so that the existing house dominated the extension and this seemed to do the trick, along with using natural stone lintels and quions, etc!
It may be that you get an easier ride if you step back the extension/lower the ridge line, even use dormers in the roof (chalet style) as opposed to a full 2 storey extension
The main point of their objection to our original scheme was that it wasnt subservant to the main house ie that it looked smaller to the existing house (our existing house isnt that big from the front!). this is despite the extension being building in traditional materials to match the existing building.
In the end, we dropped the ridgeline of the extension so that the existing house dominated the extension and this seemed to do the trick, along with using natural stone lintels and quions, etc!
It may be that you get an easier ride if you step back the extension/lower the ridge line, even use dormers in the roof (chalet style) as opposed to a full 2 storey extension
hi everyone,thanks again for all your help.my agent is still trying to meet up with the planning officer,but no joy so far.fingers crossed for tomorrow but we'll keep you posted.
we,re really hoping to be able to come to some agreement on this,we don't have a problem with dropping the roof(as long as it's 2 storey) or staggering,but we need to stand firm on the boundary,so here's hoping it doesn't come down to that.
we,re really hoping to be able to come to some agreement on this,we don't have a problem with dropping the roof(as long as it's 2 storey) or staggering,but we need to stand firm on the boundary,so here's hoping it doesn't come down to that.
latest update:agent finally managed to speak to the planning officer,and he and his colleague are coming next week for a site meeting at our house with us and agent.apparently he said to agent that we've 2 choices;dig our heels in and appeal,or make adjustments and re-submit.just depends what alterations they want really.does anyone have any relevant questions we should put to them?just not sure how to play it really,so any advice is,as always,very welcome.
The third choice is to appeal and resubmit. Or resubmit, and then after four weeks put the appeal in and this may focus their minds on a decision which they will have some control over against a decision from the inspectorate which they will have no control over.
Your agent should have dealt with the issues of subservience in the design, but I cant understand why there should be an issue of building to the boundary and reduced openness or space, if this property has nothing next to it
How far away is the existing building from an adjacent one?
How far away is the boundary from an adjacent boundary?
How far away is the boundary from an adjacent building?
Can you post a picture showing the view of your house, in context of the space next to it and any adjacent building? Probably taken from across the road?
Your agent should have dealt with the issues of subservience in the design, but I cant understand why there should be an issue of building to the boundary and reduced openness or space, if this property has nothing next to it
How far away is the existing building from an adjacent one?
How far away is the boundary from an adjacent boundary?
How far away is the boundary from an adjacent building?
Can you post a picture showing the view of your house, in context of the space next to it and any adjacent building? Probably taken from across the road?
hi everybody,once again thanks for all your invaluable advice,here's thelatest news.yesterday we had a meeting with two planning officers.we asked for clarification on the reason why the plans had been refused,and from what they said the second storey is the problem as it "will significantly reduce spacing in part of the street which has an open character to it."they have no problem with the ground floor,but that will not be big enough for us,we need two storeys.after a site inspection it became clear that the problem is the sightline as there is another row of houses behind mine at right angles to the street,parallel to my house and the proposed extension would jut out.the distance from my house to the nearest house is 15m but apparently that's too near.our agent showed them examples of similar extensions in the area,whilst they said that each case must be judged on it's individual merits,they did say that they will look at these examples and possibly overturn their decision if it seems incorrect.they would rather do this than go to appeal.our agent doesn't think there's a chance of them changing their decision so it looks like we will have to go to appeal.this has been very difficult for us.the only reason we wanted the extension is because my mother recently died and now my elderly father is living with us,and is not in the best if health,and what with our two teenage boys,a three bedroom house is just too small.sorry for the long post,i'll post again when we have more news.
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