Yes, that's correct. Ignore the recent discussion between EFLI and myself, since it would only really be a potential issue in relation to a situation much more complex than yours.
Kind Regards, John
Plastic led floodlight 20w has only live and neutral but no earth
- Thread starter woodman-46
- Start date
Kind Regards, John
Sponsored Links
I sort-of did....
... I have a fairly large room which has six 3-lamp/bulb light fittings (not so bad with LEDs, but was a bit ridiculous with incandescents, albeit it's a room which is not often used!). Quite possibly in the belief that it would save cable, they have all been connected to a 'central' JB, with the supply feed and switch connected to that (i.e. a 'star' arrangement).
They are actually Class I fittings, so the issue doesn't actually arise (since they all need CPCs). However, you got me wondering what would be the situation, regs-wise, if they were Class 2. Is it your view that it would be acceptable to run 2-core cable from the JB to each fitting, given that at least four of them are several feet from the JB ('as the cable flies') - i.e. regarding that JB as the 'point' to which a CPC had to be run?
Kind Regards, John
Not according to the regulations.
Look at it the simple way - you, and the OP, should be be able to fit a class 1 item, at any point, without the need to rewire anything.
Or to put it another way, a DIYer will not be tempted to connect a class 1 item without a missing CPC.
To state the obvious, if the OP buys a class 1 light next time, he will need a short 3 core flex.
- Joined
- 16 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 1,902
- Reaction score
- 161
- Country
A watt or two?? More like 15W heat dissipation at least
Sponsored Links
It does appear to have multiple ventilation holes.
No, it is Class 2 and, as such, is better without an earth. That's why they made it Class 2.
Do not unnecessarily complicate things and confuse Woodman.
So, totally different, then.
It could be a metal cooker, but it isn't.
Fair enough, but you are applying common sense, but seemingly calling it a regulation (which, as far as I am aware, is a regulation which doesn't exist) - namely a regulation specifying a maximum distance between the end of the CPC and the Class 2 item concerned.
As I said, I'm trying to learn, so I'm trying to get a feel as to roughly what you think the cut-off distance is. The OP's floodlight seemingly had a very short factory-fitted lead (I would have thought inconveniently short in many cases - unless the photo is misleading, I think it might struggle to get through an outside wall and into anything) - but what if it were 1m long? ... or 1.5m or 2m?
Kind Regards, John
No. He will have to have a box on the wall (ideally).
Maybe thats the reason for it having short lead, to limit the length of unearthed cable, they all seem to be made like that the ones with 2 core, the ones i have brought with 3 core fitted do seem to have longer leads, but them fittings do usually require earth, even with Link lights, Transformers, drivers etc you will get up to about a 1 metre 2 core lead, I regard that as part of the fitting and an Earth conductor need only be supplied up to the point that they terminate, which is usually limited to the length of that supplied fitted 2 core, I dont feel it acceptable to extend that fitted cable further with 2 core, or to dismantle and fit a longer 2 core.
I wonder what EFLI feels about that? I got the impression that he probably would think that 2 metres would be too much (probably about the same as my lights I mentioned), but maybe I'm wrong.
Kind Regards, John
Agreed, but what about (and please se my response to Rocky's post) ...
?
Kind Regards, John
Well, why would one fit a transformer 2m. away?
One wouldn't do that and leave it out of reach through a downlight hole.
If the transformer is feeding more than one lamp then the supply cable could be left accessible at one of the locations.
This really is just common sense so that class 1 fittings may be connected instead.
We're not talking about installing the transformer 2m away from the light - but, rather, of having it (probably close to the light) 2m away from where its factory-fitted (2-core) cable connects to the 'fixed wiring' (your 'point'). My daughter has such an arrangement in at least one room - probably done because the most convenient (and accessible) place to connect to the lighting circuit is roughly that far away.
In this case, of course, it's the Class 2 'transformer' which is the issue, not the (ELV) light fitting.
Kind Regards, John
I can only refer you to 412.2.3.2.
It seems very simple to me. You are free to ignore it, should you wish.
It seems very simple to me. You are free to ignore it, should you wish.
Interesting. I didn't realise it was 'duplicated', and wonder why they bothered about that one, which relates only to circuits supplying Class II equipment. The one I'm familiar with is (the last paragraph of) 411.3.1.1, which says exactly the same but for any circuit (hence including those mentioned in 'your' one)!
You may regard it as simple, but it's what we've been discussing. You presumably disagree, but my inclination is to regard all of the cabling of a circuit from the CU/DB up to where it enters an item of "fixed equipment' as being 'fixed wiring' - which (in view of the Part II definition of a 'point') would lead me to a different conclusion from yours.
If, for some reason, the (3-core) supply cable from the switched lighting circuit was, say, 30 cm too short to reach into a Class II item and I therefore extended it with a JB and short length of cable, I presume you would agree that that extra bit of cable was still part of the 'fixed wiring', and therefore that it had to include a CPC. It just seems a little odd to me that if that 'short extra bit of cable' was installed in the factory, it ceases to be 'fixed wiring' and therefore arguably does not need to have a CPC.
I have no desire to ignore either those regs and, indeed, there are very few situations in which one has any realistic opportunity to ignore them. I merely asked whether it was strictly compliant to have a situation in which the cable entering a Class II item had no CPC. As I keep saying, I'm trying to learn, not argue.
Kind Regards, John
...but it's not; flex of an appliance is not fixed wiring.
If you regard it as fixed wiring, whether it is or not, then you could also extend the CPC.
You could use cable that was 30cm. longer or put the juction box on the other end.
...except that it is not going to be fixed wiring, is it?
It can be disconnected and taken away with the lamp.
I know you could do the same with your 30cm. extension but why would you?
The one in question does not appear to be able to be removed from the lamp.
It obviously is because no class 2 items that come with a flex will have a CPC.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
