Plug in balcony solar UK , just a Lidl question

[ericmark]

I once was a parrot, but I have cured myself now, cured myself now, cured myself now.

But again I see the point, we all know not passed as yet for use, but also there are people delaying fitting pro solar thinking the plug in will be cheaper, and also buying it anyway.

For may solar to save me money, it needs to combine export payment, battery, solar, and off-peak supply, it would not really pay without them all.

Solar without a battery or export payment may help the DNO, but gain for householder is low. If one has a grant for the solar, it may save enough money to be worthwhile on its own, or if you buy very cheap it may be worthwhile.

However, the announcement by Ed Miliband has done the reverse to what he wanted, it has slowed down the take-up of solar panels not increased it. At least those which are officially installed.

 

[JohnW2]

we do have ....

The IET Wiring Regulations (722.55. 101.0. 201.1i) specify that 13A UK sockets which are installed to charge an EV must comply with BS 1363-2 and be marked 'EV' on the back of the plate.

I think marking were the user can't see the mark, is daft ...

If that's all there were, it would, indeed, be totally daft. However, you failed to quote the crucial second part of the sentence (emboldened here)...

722.55.101.0.201.1 Each AC charging point shall incorporate:
(i) one socket-outlet complying with BS 1363-2 marked ‘EV’ on its rear and, except where there is no possibility
of confusion, a label shall be provided on the front face or adjacent to the socket-outlet or its enclosure
stating: ‘suitable for electric vehicle charging’ , or

Mind you, if one tried extrapolating that to 'plug-in solar', it would leave unaddressed the issue of the countless millions of 'other' BS1363 sockets that were not labelled as "not suitable for plug-in solar installations"

 

[JohnW2]

I once was a parrot, but I have cured myself now, cured myself now, cured myself now.

It seems that the forum software went crazy for a while, and it was only subsequently that I was able to 'edit away' all of the the repaeted incomplete messages

But again I see the point, we all know not passed as yet for use, but also there are people delaying fitting pro solar thinking the plug in will be cheaper, and also buying it anyway.

Maybe - but that just makes them daft, even if they are managing to buy such kit already, since there is as yet no certainty that the sale/use of these things ever will be legal in UK!!

For may solar to save me money, it needs to combine export payment, battery, solar, and off-peak supply, it would not really pay without them all.

Some people will obviously be 'taken in' by everything they hear/read, but I strongly suspect that the vast majority of sensible people who obtain these systems (IF they become available in UK) will do so solely with the idea of reducing their bills for electricity import, without batteries and without any thought of being paid for export from them. I would imagine that the bureaucracy of paying for export from a 'portable' device (which theoretically could be plugged into a different installation 'every day' !!) would be a total nightmare, which could take as long to get working as the deployment of 'smart' meters or the construction of HS2

 

[ericmark]

Oh dear,

he does raise the points about poor insulation, but two inverters to test islanding is rather pointless, need to look at a block of flats with 10 inverters, and 800 watt load is clearly going to cause under voltage even with 2 inverters.

He is correct about the way the industry seems to be delaying any results.

The longer the delay, the more people will fit it anyway, the figures based on my 6 kW panels I would expect 800 watt panels to produce around 800 kWh.

 

[denso13]

or not, as the case might be.

Maybe, but it will either become legal or not to install plug in solar, fairly black and white.

Whether the industry agrees with the outcome is another question.

 

[JohnW2]

Maybe, but it will either become legal or not to install plug in solar, fairly black and white.

Quite so. However, those starting these discussions, now, all seem to be assuming that it will become legal, even though I'm personally not convinced that such will be the case - political will/desire does not necessarily triumph over technological, practical or even 'safety' considerations.

Whether the industry agrees with the outcome is another question.

It is, but at least UK industry will presumably be stuck with whatever the 'outcome' proves to be? Having said that, it seems that the legislators are probably taking most of their advice from 'the industry', which may well result in industry being fairly happy with whatever legislation may come

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Maybe, but it will either become legal or not to install plug in solar, fairly black and white.

Whether the industry agrees with the outcome is another question.

I am not sure the option is still there, the government has declared it will become legal, what we are waiting on, is the requirements to make it legal.

V2G EV points are now legal, but we need to complete a G99 first. And it seems even in Germany they have to make some form of application before installing plug in solar which can back feed into the grid.

To require landlords to provide a suitable socket where plug and play is a viable option, in the same way as pre-2008 we had to have a RCD protected socket where it was likely to be used for gardening equipment could well be required.

With EV chargers which use a BS 1363 socket outlet, we should use special socket outlets rated for EV use.

The rental sector which the plug in solar is aimed for, have the properties inspected every 5 years, so should not be a problem. But the owner-occupier is a different story, we have seen trampolines hit an ambulance, and get blown onto railway lines, and we really don't want flying solar panels.

But as it stands, the delay is causing people to jump the gun, so speed is of the essance, also the prospect of cheap solar panels is puting people off installing proper arrays, so it is doing the reverse to what was intended, and reducing the numbers of solar arrays being installed.

 

[denso13]

am not sure the option is still there, the government has declared it will become legal, what we are waiting on, is the requirements to make it legal.

They declare lots of things which don't actually happen.

But I do think they have been advised that it is possible, hence all the briefings.

 

[ericmark]

Plug in solar is possible, no question about that, the question is if it is possible using a standard BS 1363 plug and socket, and they have never in any of the press releases said you can use a standard BS 1363 plug and socket, we already have the standard for the V2G EV socket, so we do have a standard plug and socket we can use, what stops on registering a standard V2G EV socket and plugging solar into it, I don't know. But that would be Plug and play solar using a standard plug and socket, but to the V2G EV standard not BS 1363 standard.

Oh, isn't English lovely, where you can twist statements to suit later.

 

[denso13]

they have never in any of the press releases said you can use a standard BS 1363 plug and socket

The general public have no idea what that is, they wouldn't be as specific as that in a press release.

There is no doubt what they mean by plug and play.

 

[bernardgreen]

This seems to answer several questions about plug in solar and the problems that they cause in the real world.

 

[ebee]

Well your solar panel might enjoy the swing or it might be damaged or thrown out of optimal Eric lad!
LOL.

Bernard, thanks, that piece was a very interesting article and brought up some good "food for thought" for us to digest and consider.

 

[martygturner]

Like a lot of things, plug in solar is here and for all the bleating consumers will just vote with their wallets and it will become defacto regardless of what any trade, supposed safety organisation says. Probably best for them to come up with some guidelines for a "safe" installation rather than trying to bolt the stable door all the time. Why have they not come up with a help sheet for the consumer on how to do plug in solar ? if they were all so interested in safety they would surely have commissioned some guidance...rather than the delay delay delay spin spin spin attitude that is current. Perhaps some testing, why are we relying on efix?

 

[denso13]

have commissioned some guidance...rather than the delay delay delay spin spin spin attitude that is current. Perhaps some testing, why are we relying on efix?

They did and they have already reported to the Government. I suspect that was positive and the main reason they are pushing ahead with it.

 

[mikehammer69]

My take on bidirectional rcds at this stage is that unless the manufacturer states its bidirectional or its marked as unidirectional it's an unknown quantity

As JohnW2 stated ,the test button problem may occur if the rcd is not operational , it can remain in-circuit if not designed to do so

Also the electronics apparently may remain in circuit on the load side after tripping if there's 2 supplies if not designed to do so