Politicians: representatives of the people?

[johnny_t]

I know, I know. I just want don't want the risk of a fingering to get unnecessarily worse.

Off for lunch now. Catch ya' later, as long as I don't get framed for a crime I didn't commit

 

[oilman]

Nope

Well like it or not you run that risk everytime a crime is committed. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you may well get fingered. (ooer missus). You cannot be a part of society without being subject to that risk.


joe

Well like it or not (so you may as well stop bleating and move on,( we are after all where we are) you are not going to get people locked up for 90 days without charge, so get over it.

 

[joe-90]

Nope

Well like it or not you run that risk everytime a crime is committed. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time you may well get fingered. (ooer missus). You cannot be a part of society without being subject to that risk.


joe

Well like it or not (so you may as well stop bleating and move on,( we are after all where we are) you are not going to get people locked up for 90 days without charge, so get over it.

That's not the issue here, read the thread title.

 

[petewood]

Only the police know how long they need.

Surely at the moment they can hold someone for 28 days and if they haven't got enough evidence they can ask a judge for an extension. The judge will consider the risk and make a decision. This seems fair enough to me.

I'm sure the police would rather have the 90 days so they don't have the trouble of going to a judge to plead their case. I'm sure the police would always request greater and greater powers if they thought they could get away with it because the more power they have the easier their jobs are.

Someone pointed out to me that if the police had 90 days to hold anyone arrested for any offence they would simply arrest suspects and hang onto them while they dealt with more urgent cases.

There is another risk here as well as has been demonstrated many times throughout the world.

If a government grants it's police force wide-ranging powers, and then that government is under threat of losing power in an election to a more liberal party which the police force sees as a threat to itself then the police may act to influence the election. There are lots of cases recorded of opposition politicians being arrested and held for no genuine reason, as well as canvassers, fund-raisers etc.

 

[joe-90]

The Police aren't a race apart. They live near you and me and their kids go to school and they buy ham at Tesco and go to football matches.....


Are we talking about some kind of Gestapo here?


joe

 

[WoodYouLike]

Reading is not that difficult?
READ his post for once before slagging out again

 

[johnny_t]

The Police aren't a race apart. They live near you and me and their kids go to school and they buy ham at Tesco and go to football matches.....


Are we talking about some kind of Gestapo here?


joe

Back again.

No, we're not talking about some sort of Gestapo, but you also need to make sure that we don't take small steps that allow future governments to abuse us and the police in future.

 

[joe-90]

Reading is not that difficult?
READ his post for once before slagging out again

I've read it and replied. Just because you don't like the reply doesn't make it 'slagging'.

Calm down dear, it's only a commercial.


joe

 

[petewood]

The Police aren't a race apart. They live near you and me and their kids go to school and they buy ham at Tesco and go to football matches.....

The police force is greater than the sum of it's parts. It's not just the local bobby in his patrol car.

No, we're not talking about some sort of Gestapo, but you also need to make sure that we don't take small steps that allow future governments to abuse us and the police in future.

Exactly, and I'm sure that our MP's thought long and hard about this before they voted. It's what we pay them for.

 

[joe-90]

The Police aren't a race apart. They live near you and me and their kids go to school and they buy ham at Tesco and go to football matches.....


Are we talking about some kind of Gestapo here?


joe

Back again.

No, we're not talking about some sort of Gestapo, but you also need to make sure that we don't take small steps that allow future governments to abuse us and the police in future.

Neither can we have a set of rules that tie the hands of those who are there to protect us.

joe

 

[joe-90]

Exactly, and I'm sure that our MP's thought long and hard about this before they voted. It's what we pay them for.

I think you'll find they thought long and hard about the Muslim vote in their constituancy.

It's what they get paid with.


joe

 

[kendor]

Neither can we have a set of rules that tie the hands of those who are there to protect us.

joe

Rather than tying look on it as control, like all independent organisations they have to abide by rules and not have free reign to do what they like.

As suggested before, asking a judge for extensions is good enough as he will look upon the reasons why an extension has been called for and if it is justified, you need this independant control otherwise the individuals rights will be overlooked. there has to be a certain amount of efficiency on the police part if they cannot find satisfactory reasons why someone should be held then that person should be released. What's the point in holding someone for longer if at the end of it there is no evidence to back up the custody?

 

[johnny_t]

The Police aren't a race apart. They live near you and me and their kids go to school and they buy ham at Tesco and go to football matches.....


Are we talking about some kind of Gestapo here?


joe

Back again.

No, we're not talking about some sort of Gestapo, but you also need to make sure that we don't take small steps that allow future governments to abuse us and the police in future.

Neither can we have a set of rules that tie the hands of those who are there to protect us.

joe

Gets us back to the beginning of the thread though. MPs analysed and debated the proposals and, even with the huge Labour majority, decided that 28 days is not going to tie the hands of the police. 7 days used to be long enough (even when it was white middle-aged men bombing us), last year it was doubled to 14. Now we are told that anything less than 90 is madness, and parliament has disagreed.

I know that for some at the moment, muslim = terrorist and terrorist = muslim, but that won't always be the case and these laws will affect us all for a long long time. I'm glad 90 days didn't go through, because it stands up for every one of us in the long term.

 

[joe-90]

The Police wanted it. The party elected by the people wanted it. The people clearly wanted it. So why was it refused?

Self-interest amongst those MPs with an eye on losing the Muslim vote.

In opposing it you are the minority. Do we work on minority rule from now on? Does our future depend on what a few self centred politicians decide?

Just why should a handful decide the laws of a nation against that nations will?

That's the worrying bit. A few deciding for the many when they were clearly not following the wishes of the many. Sounds like fascism through the back-door to me.


joe

 

[kendor]

The Police wanted it. The party elected by the people wanted it. The people clearly wanted it. So why was it refused?

Self-interest amongst those MPs with an eye on losing the Muslim vote.

In opposing it you are the minority. Do we work on minority rule from now on? Does our future depend on what a few self centred politicians decide?

Just why should a handful decide the laws of a nation against that nations will?

That's the worrying bit. A few deciding for the many when they were clearly not following the wishes of the many. Sounds like fascism through the back-door to me.


joe

I don't remember being involved in an opinion poll to ask me?
so where did you get the information that the majority of people want it?
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority couldn't care less.