Power Switch Above Hob

[bert64]

I recently ordered a new dual fuel cooker to replace an existing electric cooker installation...

There is both gas and electrical feed available behind the existing cooker, however the on/off switch for the current electric supply is located about 30cm above the back right of the hob.

The installer refused to fit the cooker because of this, stating it was illegal to have any electrics above a gas hob.

From what i have been able to read online however, this only seems to apply to electrical outlets (ie sockets) and not to a switch.
Also the new cooker has a top, which when folded up to use the cooker would completely cover the switch.

The installer said i would need to get this switch moved, which sounds like a very time consuming and expensive job which would involve ripping holes in the walls, re-plastering and then retiling over the top..

So is this correct? Am i unable to have a new cooker installed without doing anything about this switch, and if so would it be possible to have the switch removed rather than moved? Perhaps if i went for a fully gas cooker i could do without the electric supply?

 

[bernardgreen]

A scenario

You are cooking a meal. The hobs are in use so the cover is up and the switch is not accessible.

The elements in the oven start to glow red hot and continue to do so even when the control knob is turned OFF. The oven is burning out and is a fire risk.

Now you have to clear the hobs and shut the lid before you can shut off the electrics to the oven to prevent the elements burning out the inside of the oven.

Can the lid be shut immediately after the hobs have been turned off, not all do, there might be an enforced delay to ensure the flames are out and cooled down enough for the lid to be safely closed.

And if the lid is ever removed then the switch will be exposed to the heat from the hobs.

That failure of the oven controls is un-likely.

Loss of the lid ( breakage ) is a possibility.

Risk analysis versus cost of moving the switch.

 

[1john]

Two choices, sadly neither are good news, either relocate the switch or re-locate the cooker

 

[bert64]

Relocating the cooker is completely impractical, would require completely gutting and refitting the kitchen and major work to move the cables and pipes...

Moving the switch seems an easier option, however because its such a small job none of the electricians i have contacted are willing to do it.

Speaking of the oven burning out and being a fire risk, this is already the case which is why the old one needs to be replaced. The oven and grill are completely unusable, and only 2 of the 4 rings on top actually work, and not very well.

Would the easiest option be to completely disconnect the electrical supply, tile over where the switch is and go for a pure gas cooker?

 

[ericmark]

It does seem silly as the gas cooker is far more dangerous and if an isolator is needed for electric then also an isolator is needed for gas. In theory the spigot for gas connection should be as accessible as the electric isolator so you can unplug it and isolate the cooker.

However the plumbers are failed electricians and have no thought process but just follow there rule book to the letter and if there rule book says gap must be 3" and you have an enamelled steel wall unit they will still not fit it even though it will need a few thousands of degrees to ever burn it.

The isolator should of course be where if something goes wrong you can reach it but it is really down to a risk assessment. My parents have a kitchen sub-main next to outside door in kitchen and the isolator on wall is really just for show.

In same way as all gas may be OK so would all electric and my stand alone Belling cooker has all controls at front so very unlikely one would ever have need for isolator. My parents old cooker with eye level grill was completely different and any fire on hob would have stopped one switching off any of the controls.

Electric cookers auto turn off when left unattended, have over temperature sensors should pan boil dry, auto boil then drop to simmer, and one can put a £5 note on hob boil a pan of water on it without damaging the £5 note. The supply has an automatic leak detector (RCD) and all in all is far far safer then gas. It is also more efficient with far more of the energy going to heat food and far less to heat kitchen. Plus it does not produce water while heating so does not require as many air changes as gas.

So to basics the reason gas fitters are so much following the rules is it is a very dangerous fuel and if it were not for it's historic use for cooking would likely be banned.

Cure be safe and go all electric.

Note:- When giving safety features I am referring to an induction hob and they do have some bad points too.
1) Because the NHS have fitted pacemakers that do not comply with EU rules it can cause problems with the inferior type the NHS have used.
2) Useless with a WOK as those with magnetic bottoms are too heavy to really work.

One can still tilt a frying pan but lift it and it auto switches off.

Also some induction hobs use touch controls which are useless. Knobs work great as reacts so fast you don't need to move pan off heat just turn off and the never blow out you even have a chocolate melting setting.

Gas hob is rated about 5.6kw and you can boil water in electric kettle quicker than same amount on hob. Electric hob rated between 1.2 and 3.7kw and with a 3kw hob takes same time as electric kettle to boil same amount of water. So where does the extra power of gas hob go? Not into you food that's for sure.

 

[bert64]

You lost me at "useless with a wok"...
This is precisely the reason we want a gas cooker, my wife is chinese and most of what she knows how to cook requires a wok... We are wasting huge amounts of money on takeout right now so a slightly less efficient gas cooker sounds just fine.

 

[flameport]

Quickest and cheapest option - Remove the switch, join the wires, put a metal blanking plate over the top.

Yes, this does result in no isolator in the kitchen, however there is always the consumer unit if some unlikely emergency occurs.

 

[coolhands]

seems sensible to move it to me - off to the right like the one in this picture. Or ask the chap if it could simply be moved straight up? (ie towards the top of the wall out of the way of the heat? Or do you have cupboards there?)

oven 2

• coolhands
• 30 Dec 2010
• 1

 

[sparkiemike]

There are no distances given in the wiring regulations, there is a lot of guidance and "good practise", most of it saying the switch should be 30cm from edge of the hob.

The points I would make re the cooker switch.

1. Isolation:- if it is for an emergency then forget it, the double pole switch in your consumer unit is good for that
2. Isolation:- if it is for maintenance then above the cooker is perfectly accpetable
3. It is a domestic kitchen, temperatures are unlikley to get to a situation where it would burn the switch.

I see many cooker switches above a cooker so anecdotal evidance would suggest that it is not a real probelm.

You might be able to dicuss it with the installer asking him to quote the regulation that has been breached and perhaps persuade him to take a different view. At the end of the day you can't force the installer to fit it if his risk assesment says it is too dangerous, so find somebody else to install it.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You cannot just move the switch to the right and then

tile over where the switch is

That would leave live cables in the wall that would not be marked by a terminal or accessory.

You would need to re-route the cables to the switch so they run vertically, or horizontally from the new switch position.

That means taking up floorboards/ceiling above, or floor/ kitchen units if below.

You cannot run cables from the new switch, to the old switch and then tile over the old switch