Don’t you think the manufacturer should be told he is wrong? Really a job for trading standards though.
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- Thread starter SUNRAY
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Don’t you think the manufacturer should be told he is wrong? Really a job for trading standards though.
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Yes he should. Why don’t you do that, instead of boring the pants of the rest of us?
We know that there are things you don’t agree with. If you care about it so much then you need to take appropriate action. Call the miscreant manufacturers and have the labelling and instructions changed to your liking.
Get yourself a place on the joint IET/BSI Technical Committee JPEL/64 and have the regulations changed to your liking.
It’s time for action Whinny, New Year resolution?
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I couldn't agree more with most of your post, yes of course mistakes are made and I challenge anydody to honestly state they have never made a mistake.
It's all a question of accepting ones mistakes and dealing with them in a sensible manner but above all owning up to it when one should. Ergo; I was given the wrong information regarding the electrical connexions to a pneumatic actuator controller by a maintenance manager and blew up a zener diode, I traipsed all round Londons Maplin stores for a replacement and completed the repair without anyone significant knowing. However I included the issue in the written report for the job and included the correct connexions. Yes I got some ribbing for it for a while. End of the day: I broke it, I fixed it, I admitted it, I moved on. I told the guy of the correct connexions and included him in the email list but I saw no advantage to publishing the origin of the missinformation. However if he was an arshole like one of his peers [altogether 4 managers on 24 hour cover] I would have included it.
In the same building I managed to knock the busbar connector feeding a 200A 3ph board off the busbar. Yes I actually knocked it off with my shoulder as I turned round. I immediatly switched the board isolator off, re-attached the connector and switched board back on. I could have left it at that and denied all knowlege but I went to find the appropriate person to then lose several hours of my time while the investigation was carried out.
Well I've lived here since 1994 and as far as I was concerned 1968 it was and I've repeadedly mentioned such on the forum, however seeds sown were growing in my head.
Just looked at the deeds1965 so just before the 1966 edition.
All one can do is own your mistakes just as you own good work.
Since being self employed I've not advertised for work or gone looking for it, it was my reputation that brought the work to me and my details were passed around the competition like wildfire. Some venues, where jobs had to go out to tender, my details seemed to get passed to the winning bidder by the on site guys. The site mentioned with the Zener diode I worked for something like 6 or 7 companies over a mixture of different fields; BMS was my introduction, Radio aerials, public address system, sound studio re-build.
Eric. I don't know you or what you're like as a worker but from what i've seen on here the vast majority of your posts seem well balanced, I may not always agree [as is the case with everyone] but that is commonly very different to being wrong. Please do not even begin to compare your errors with the likes of Winstons.
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Some people seem to be able to say something so clearly.
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All true.
The problem is that "the average laymans idea of low and high [voltage]" is probably the idea/view held by 99%+ of all people, all over the world, which means that use of the IEC definitions is a hindrance to clear communication' for all but a tiny minority of people.
To my mind, that makes it silly to tell (e.g. here) 'average laymen' that they should use the IET terminology. If they went to a retailer, or even wholesaler, and asked for, say, a "low voltage" lamp/bulb/fan/whatever, I suspect that it would be very very unusual for them to be offered a 230V one!
Even worse, strictly speaking the IEC definition of "LV" includes what we would call "ELV" - which, theoretically makes the term unclear/ambiguous even for electricians (and everyone else involved with sub-HV voltages).
Kind Regards, John
Well a good start would be professionals on here using the correct terms.
This is a forum designed for DIYers to ask for help.
they haven’t come here to be lectured on the minutea of various terms. They don’t want long unhelpful comments that do not answer their questions.
Most of us use terminology that the DIYer are comfortable with.
If you want to play with people who are as anal as you, why don’t you go back to the IET forum?
they haven’t come here to be lectured on the minutea of various terms. They don’t want long unhelpful comments that do not answer their questions.
Most of us use terminology that the DIYer are comfortable with.
If you want to play with people who are as anal as you, why don’t you go back to the IET forum?
The most important thing when professionals interact and converse with non-professionals is that they should use language which is understood by, and useful to, the non-professionals. This is perhaps most dramatically seen in relation to medical and other healthcare professionals, but applies equally in many disciplines and walks of life, including those relating to things electrical.
E
EddieM
Lol I very much doubt that, I'd wager the majority of the public would say a car battery was high voltage, after all it can start a car.
The vast majority have little to no interest in things electrical, except when they don't work anymore.
Not if that language is actually wrong. If non-professionals are habitually told the wrong thing they will assume it is right and perpetuate it.
Maybe a few, but I would strongly suspect that most would call it 'low voltage', on the basis of their knowing that its terminals were 'safe to touch'. In any event, "high voltage" would move this discussion even further, since it's essentially about the ELV/LV distinction (even though, as I said, the IEC apparently say that ELV is LV
).As a typical anecdote, just a few weeks ago a friend of mine asked for advice in relation to garden lighting, including submersible lights for his pond. He said that he wanted them all to be "low voltage" lights, so as to be certain that they could not represent any hazard to his children, so I somewhat doubt that he had 230V ones in mind
!As you may recall, over the years I have undertaken various mini informal quasi-surveys (of family, friends, colleagues etc.) and I think I have yet to find any member of the general public who regards it correct/appropriate (or even necessarily safe) to describe 'mains' electricity as "low voltage".
Kind Regards, John
That begs the question of what language is "wrong" (or "right"). Language is about effective communication. if, as is my belief about "low voltage", the vast majority of people (maybe 99%) use one form of language, it is questionable as to whether it is appropriate to think that all but the tiny minority (maybe 1%) are wrong.
Indeed, regarding voltages up to 1,000V AC as "low voltage" is not even of relevance to the vast majority of electricians, who will never encounter voltages (even potential differences) even as great as 500V in their lifetimes. As I've said, it's not even as if the IEC definition of LV excludes ELV (which, if it did, might make a bit more sense)!
Returning to my previous comment, when doctors and other healthcare professionals converse amongst themselves, they will often (although by no means always) use "correct" technical medical terminology (much of which would be meaningless to the general public). However, when conversing with patients or other members of the general public, they would always use ('incorrect') terminology that was used and understood by 'lay' people, and would very rarely attempt to rebuke patients for the language they were using or try to 'educate' them about 'correct medical terminology ... and so it could (should?) be with things electrical - those few working in the field of electricity generation and distribution have good reason to use the 'correct' LV/HV terminology when talking amongst themselves, but (at least in my opinion) nothing is gained by the use of such 'correct' terminology in any other context.
Yes, maybe, but wouldn't it be better if everyone knew the correct terms - or rather had not learnt the incorrect terms.
If 240V is high voltage; what is 33,000V?
Anyway, there is no hope when manufacturers make GU5.3 lamps and call it MR16 - even when the lamp itself is not even MR16.
I'll get you onside by mentioning 'plugtops'.
If 240V is high voltage; what is 33,000V?
Anyway, there is no hope when manufacturers make GU5.3 lamps and call it MR16 - even when the lamp itself is not even MR16.
I'll get you onside by mentioning 'plugtops'.
E
EddieM
I bet you'd find the majority of the public would be reticent about picking up a car battery by it's terminals.
One of the problems of course is 240V was known as 'High Voltage' or 'High Tension' and not that many years back.
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