Professional disasters

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Does anyone else agree with me - that the "pros" have disasters as well? In fact I would go further - a serious DIYer does not usually have time restraints (money issues), takes great care over regulations, and takes a pride in his/her standard of workmanship. Some of these are missing from the pros. Not that there are many "good" pros out there but DIYers shouldn't all be tarred with the same brush as being universally incompetant. Lets have a section on "Professional trade disasters".

lukewarmbath
 
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Try reading more in the thread then, we have put our " disasters up".
We take more care and know and understand the regs.
Hence the other threads where Diyers ask US how to things.

Bit of a non runner this.
 
Try reading more in the thread then, we have put our " disasters up".
We take more care and know and understand the regs.
Hence the other threads where Diyers ask US how to things.

Bit of a non runner this.

Thanks for your speedy reply "alarm" I disagree totally with all you say except perhaps for the last statement. I wouldn't expect pros to admit that a Diyer could do a better job that a pro - but they can and do. I looked at a new build heating installation last month - the standard of plumbing was terrible both with the standard of soldering and hacked-out flooring. Happy New Year!

diymostthings
 
As opposed to a electrical system wired incorrectly in non safe zones, with incorrect cable and fuse ratings with no proper protection :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Keep it up diyallthings :rolleyes:
 
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Well, hey now, lukewarmbath... Of course there are cowboys out there, just as there are cowboys in all lines of work. But it's a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush, just because you've seen some botched jobs.
You've presumably sat in a great many houses and commercial premises where everything just works, with no drama, because the trades folk did a decent job.

And as Alarm says, it definitely cannot be denied that the pros contribute their fair share to the disasters sub-forum.

Sounds like you've been bitten by a cowboy and want to vent your spleen ;)
 
Of course there are cowboys out there, just as there are cowboys in all lines of work. But it's a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush :

Errr, I think that was his point (or one of them). DIYrs are constantly being tarred wit the same brush, that DIY work is unsafe, not following the regs etc. There is a lot of DIY work out there that IS following regs, safe and works extremely well with a much better appearance than many professionals have time to do.
Who tars who with the brush then?

Although I have seen tradesmens disaster posts in here too.
 
Of course there are cowboys out there, just as there are cowboys in all lines of work. But it's a bit unfair to tar them all with the same brush :

Errr, I think that was his point (or one of them). DIYrs are constantly being tarred wit the same brush, that DIY work is unsafe, not following the regs etc. There is a lot of DIY work out there that IS following regs, safe and works extremely well with a much better appearance than many professionals have time to do.
Who tars who with the brush then?

Although I have seen tradesmens disaster posts in here too.

Well my main point was to have a complete forum for professional disasters. Having one for DIYers is a bit tarring all with the same brush. As for pro electrical installations you dont have to look far in newbuild for exposed copper at meter tail terminations (in the CU and at the meter). I suppose a compromise would be to have a "DIY success" forum!

diymostthings
 
So you were bitten.

Knew you would get to it eventually.

Take a pic and go to the Electrical Forum, i`ll see you there :D

But search about, there is one where we all describe having an electric shock.
I`ve hit a gas pipe.
A m8 went thru a wall fitting a audio entry system.
Another fitting a safe caught the carpet and took a line thru a £700 bit of carpet.

Happy now?

But we are all insured and got it fixed ASAP.
 
To say pros don't have mistakes is of course incorrect nobody is perfect and we all slip up occasionally, but the difference I think is that the pro will know instinctively how to get around a problem. A site agent once half joking said to me that "we don't have problems - just oppertunaties that present themselves".:cool:
 
Or the other one I like, "There are no problems only solutions" .
 
I once watched one of them 'out takes' programmes where a group of builders were installing a patio window.
The guy measured the distance from the corner of the house to the first vertical cut he was going to make in the brickwork. From this he measured where the second vertical cut would go and then measured from the ground level to where the lower and upper horizontal cuts would go. All chalked out neat and square using level and plumb bobs etc.
He then went inside and marked up the measurements on the internal wall.
(You can see where this is going can't you, :LOL: )

Yes you got it!
When they cut the two openings out using an angle grinder from each side they were about 9" out on the horizontal and around 6" on the vertical! :LOL: :LOL:

Yet when yhey showed the actual programme everything seemed to go without a hitch! :eek:
Cheatin' beggars! :LOL: :LOL:
 
I think a lot depends on the trade.

I as a DIY guy can sand my floor and paint it with many coats of varnish giving a yacht finish which any pro could just not afford the time to do.

But as we move to the more technical trades the DIY man just can't afford the equipment required.

One of the major problems is keeping abreast of technology and throughout my careerer I have been sent on main courses to keep my skills to the level required.

However many sole traders feel they don't need to attend these courses they have been doing the job for last xx years and don't think anyone who lives their life in a class room can teach them how to do their job.

As an electrician there has not been much choose but other trades for example a plumber can still do work in a domestic without qualifications and when he does get them are normally limited to gas side of things and not so much on the water side.

However as allied trades we do get involved with other trades and we do see some of the problems.

Plastic pipes is one of the major problems. They must have the matching inserts and joints mixing makes can cause them to fail. There must be some slack to allow for expansion and contraction. And often needs retaining washers or rings. But installed correctly it is far safer than copper as it does not transmit electrical faults between rooms.

I have used plastic for air for many years at far higher pressures than water systems and once learnt it is far better.

So for my disaster. New bathroom was to be fitted while my wife was in USA and I was in London by my children. To be fair they did a good job but it seems my daughter went OTT on clearing up and cleared up a small washer. It should have fitted in the recess behind this shower terminal
As a result after a few years the unit leaked and not a great amount so went unnoticed for a long time. Finally the ceiling gave way.

This was an insurance job in fact two insurance jobs as carpets came under contain and rest under building. Now we have the professionals on the job. Holes cut in walls and the leaks all cured. Well that's what I thought. However they also failed to note the washer was missing so same thing happened again. This time however found before the ceiling fell down. I had even commented to the plumber was there not something to hold the pipe in place as every other joint had a screw up system to tighten on the pipe.

It was when I went to replace the outlet that I found on the web site the missing washer. However this was at least another year after the first disaster so didn't even tell the company of the mistake made. Had the ceiling come down a second time then again would have been an insurance job. As to if anyone would have admitted the previous time the washer had been missed. And even if it had proving they had missed it rather than me having played with it and lost it would be hard to prove.

Likely all would be blamed on using plastic pipes. However the professional will not relate to this potential disaster as they are unaware it ever happened.

Yes I have made mistakes but as to being a disaster again likely I would not know. Likely I would have left site and swapped jobs before any of my mistakes would have caused a disaster.

Even with my mothers wet room where the builder left the lintel unsupported at one end, destroyed the under floor heating mat, and used tile cement which would not set. Meaning we had more work to put the job right than if we had done the job from scratch. The builder walked off site and again was unaware of what was found. I would hope LCBC would have hounded him but when we went to see them they had gone. Clearly stopped trading. The electrician never completed his work having temporary removed the RCD while he located the fault. But again likely he never got paid by builders and would be unaware of the state the house had been left in.

I have as an electrician left jobs uncompleted. One I remember was in Liverpool where the job was to have ended on the Wednesday and I had found a new job in Ulster and had booked my flight for that evening.

When I came to commission I found a set of sockets were all faulty. Not fitted by me but clearly needed fixing before the store could open. I was asked to stop and fix but pointed out non-refundable flight fees which they were not willing to reimburse for me so I in turn would not stop and finish the job. I am sure to the guy who wanted to hand over the store in the morning this was a disaster?

But what seems a disaster to the DIY man is probably just a bad day to the professional. Unless it involved claiming of insurance then I would not consider it a disaster.

When I went to work on the Falklands on the building of the airport in 1984 the company had planned for 20 deaths during the contract and took 20 coffins out with them ready. 6 were returned unused. I am sure the family of the guy who fell off the roof in the snow considered it a disaster but to LMA it was within the planned allowance.
 
the op has the idea that us pros look down on diyers

this is not so, there are two types of diyer the bungling idiot and the keen diyer who takes it seriously enough to research what they are doing and take care to do it right

a diyer taking the time to log on here and participate is taking their diy seriously and as such profesionals are more than happy to share knowledge and experiance

anyone who takes an interest in the trade I love , live and breathe is a freind of mine and I will tell them all they need to know to enable them to stay safe and get the satisfaction I do from a job well done

bungling idiots need not apply, I dont waste time with them as I am too busy venting my spleen on the idiots in my own trade who charge for their time while they bodge and stitch their long suffering clients up

theres no need for another sub forum to redress the balance as there is no imbalance, this sub forum is for those who have disasters while doing it themselves to share their experiances with others
 
Mikethebrush has graciously conceded that that are "good" DIYers. Thank you. But I note that you didn't go quite so far as to say that some pros are "bungling idiots" although you accept that they do make mistakes. I contend that some pros are "bungling idiots", e.g. referring back to my observations on the plumbing standards in newbuild.

lukewarmbath
 

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