Pulling new circuits in a fitted kitchen

[ikearns]

We have finally got a new circuit pulled through to our kitchen on 10mm to a small consumer unit which we have then run the cooker from.

50A in main consumer unit to kitchen and then 32A to cooker.

I also want to pull a cable from the kitchen consumer unit to the dishwasher but as the kitchen is fitted and tiled then I cant put into the walls and the floor is solid concrete so I am looking at surface mounted conduit beneath the cupboards but as these are also fixed then I also have a problem getting as far back as the wall skirting board.

Is there a method or preferred conduit which can be put in the space underneath kitchen cupboards to run cable?

regards

Ian

 

[sparkwright]

Most people just tend to run twin and earth cable under the cupboards. Clipped the wall is best if you can reach, but unfortunately most lay it on the floor.

If you did want to put a bit of effort into it, use self adhesive trunking on the underside of the cupboard. It will probably drop off eventually though anyway.

 

[ikearns]

Appreciate the comments. Would like to get it in something even if it is conduit that isnt secured but pushed up against the wall

Have used rigid 20mm push fit conduit before when running cables and I would guess this has to be better than nothing as I should be able to push to as far as the wall but not fix it

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/cable-accessories-management/cable-management/rigid_conduit

 

[sparkwright]

You could use flexible round conduit. You could place it between the wall and the back legs of the cupboard.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We have finally got a new circuit pulled through to our kitchen on 10mm to a small consumer unit which we have then run the cooker from.

50A in main consumer unit to kitchen and then 32A to cooker.

I also want to pull a cable from the kitchen consumer unit to the dishwasher

Surely the electrician you're using has the skills and experience to do this?

If you're not using an electrician, what do you plan to do about testing all of your work, and did you apply for Building Regulations approval before you started?

 

[ikearns]

I don't doubt for a moment that the electrician has the skills, in fact I know he has however the difference between me doing the labour is reduced time for him onside, a lower bill and the likelihood of him fitting a shorter job into a busy schedule at a time which is convenient for me.

Didn't realise being helpful was a crime!

 

[riveralt]

I don't doubt for a moment that the electrician has the skills, in fact I know he has however the difference between me doing the labour is reduced time for him onside, a lower bill and the likelihood of him fitting a shorter job into a busy schedule at a time which is convenient for me.

Didn't realise being helpful was a crime!

Absolutely not, but it is to aid and abet another to do so.

 

[ikearns]

And you have assumed that I am - thanks.

Absolutely nothing that I am proposing to do is illegal nor contravenes Part P, building regs or electrical safety.

I have complete faith in my electrician to know that the work he signs off is legit.

The role I play in preparing the job is effectively unskilled however a helpful pointer would not go amiss hence my posting.

DIY can be both challenging and rewarding - this is where DIYnot.com aims to help. Our expert teams have brought together hundreds of information pages. Why not Do It Yourself?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Why do people who employ electricians not speak to them?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Absolutely nothing that I am proposing to do is illegal nor contravenes Part P, building regs or electrical safety.

I have complete faith in my electrician to know that the work he signs off is legit.

Then you should have no problems with checking with him that he's happy with the method of installation you propose and is prepared to sign documentation to say that he chose it and did it.

 

[ikearns]

And for me to make that proposal I need an idea of what is the best course of action. I have asked him but he is one man so doesn't it make sense to ask a group of people to get different options?

Clearly the first reply was helpful but those since including your own has really added no value. Simply saying 'ask an electrician' doesn't appear to be in the vein of the spirit of the forum and the nature of DIY.

Maybe not replying is more helpful than than simply feeling you have to comment on every post.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

ikearns, if you are not willing to remove wall and floor surfaces, your options are limited, to either mini-trunking or cable clipped direct.
As you have mentioned your cupboards are fixed.
Are your appliance integrated or free standing?
If integrated you will also so find you have a limited space behind them, for wall mounted accessories.
The best option in your case would be to remove the base unit kicker boards and route cable under there, you can install socket outlets in nearby units, or an alternative method would be to have sockets under the wall units behind the kicker boards but left easily accessible.
But I do echo others that have mentioned talking to your electrician regarding this, they are in a much better position to look at what you have in place and discuss alternatives, we are all remote from your installation and can not get a full picture of what have, so our opinions will be less informed of those in a position to visiting your project.
It does baffle me though that you have managed to a pull cable through for cooker and fit kitchen, giving no thought about powering up under worktop appliances. This is why you need to talk to the tradesmen who are working on this project, unless it was you who fitted the kitchen? If so, then you have made a major school boy/diy novice error and need to have word with yourself.
Hope you found this post help and informative.

 

[ikearns]

Thanks, that's very helpful.

We were able to pull a cable from the cellar through to the kitchen going via the stairs landing and through to the bedroom above kitchen but lifting the furniture, carpet and boards to the extent of reaching the other side of the room is not possible and also there are no wall cupboards above the appliance / dishwasher to conceal the cable if we bought it down from the ceiling.

The primary cable and the small CU were bought in and positioned in the space above wall cabinets which were adjacent to the floor-to-ceiling cupboard which houses the double oven and this gave cover to run the cable so it was our intention (mine and the electrician) to bring another cable in that route but run it to the floor and then under the cabinets around to the dishwasher and possibly extend to a plinth heater.but after discussing with him I found that getting to the back wall was beyond arms reach hence my initial post.

The whole ongoing project is about creating diversity and splitting the load into manageable circuits which all bare a lesser load but also working within the confines we have. The current kitchen layout is not ideal from a refit point of view and if the money and time were available then I would pull all cupboards and appliances, channel the walls, re-wire and then re-tile. Finances and circumstances dont allow this and also due to the oven and appliances all being on the same circuit as the sockets then we needed to find a way to split the load hence this putting the kitchen on a separate MCB at the CU.

I called the electrician and mentioned about using conduit as described in the first reply (behind the cupboard back legs) and he said that's fine. An example of helpful advice being acted on.

I appreciate that those who contribute are conscious of people posting on forums and then undertaking work which they are not trained or skilled to do but I think it is unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. Some of the public / non-trade who post on here (including myself) have a reasonable level of common-sense but sometimes just need an opinion on whether an idea is feasible or not. Posting and chastising for the sake of it is an easy option.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[riveralt]

And for me to make that proposal I need an idea of what is the best course of action. I have asked him but he is one man so doesn't it make sense to ask a group of people to get different options?

Clearly the first reply was helpful but those since including your own has really added no value. Simply saying 'ask an electrician' doesn't appear to be in the vein of the spirit of the forum and the nature of DIY.

The problem I have is why you are saying you are using a registered electrician when clearly you are not. If you are doing it yourself then please say and advice will be given accordingly.
Any registered electrician worth his or her salt would not be giving you the advice in the manner you say you are being given.
If this electrician actually exists then, you can still do the grunt work, but he would be designing the circuit viz cable size, MCB size, voltage drop and route. He would be personally supervising the route you are taking - which from your description is impossible to determine whether you have breached safe zone requirements. He would be testing the circuit and providing you with an appropriate certificate and ultimately a Building Control notice from either your Local Authority or his scheme – You know the same documents you would have received for your Consumer Unit installation.

Throughout this whole installation process from the choosing of the Consumer Unit to the position and cable sizes you appear to be the one who is asking the questions of this forum rather than taking advice of person who is going to sign this installation of.

Looking at your photograph of the ‘old’ consumer unit layout there a number of clear and fundamental issues in addition to the new CU that you have not spoken about but must be put right before you commence connecting your oven cables to the installation.

With this in mind I personally believe that you are one who is completing this installation and not the ‘one man band’ electrician as suggested by your comments.

I appreciate that those who contribute are conscious of people posting on forums and then undertaking work which they are not trained or skilled to do but I think it is unfair to tar everyone with the same brush. Some of the public / non-trade who post on here (including myself) have a reasonable level of common-sense but sometimes just need an opinion on whether an idea is feasible or not. Posting and chastising for the sake of it is an easy option.

I will tell you what, I will humbly apologise if you show us a photograph of the inside of the newly installed Consumer Unit and a copy of the Electrical Installation Certificate, the schedule of inspections and schedule of test results. You can blank out your details and that of the spark – I would be particularly interested in the first page of the EIC supply characteristics and earthing arrangements as well as the test results for the individual circuits.

 

[ikearns]

Okay, photos to follow

As for the documentation that you have insisted on then I cannot provide all that. I know the electrician is registered and I have receipts for his work. I am sure he would not jeopardise his business and livelihood by completing work which is illegal and not upto spec.

Regarding your comments "you are saying you are using a registered electrician when clearly you are not" and "I personally believe that you are one who is completing this installation" then you are 100% wrong and your claims are false. Quite simply you are wrong.