Questions about many wires in sockets (Ed.)

[Oggyoggyoggy]

Hi I recently bought a newish house and decided to change the socket fronts but when I removed a socket front there was 4 brown wires, 4 blue wires and 4 green yellow wires connected to the socket, I was able to trace the cables which went to 2 other sockets but was all in a ring.
Is this A) Safe B) Legal or is it a grey area.

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

Hi I recently bought a newish house and decided to change the socket fronts but when I removed a socket front there was 4 brown wires, 4 blue wires and 4 green yellow wires connected to the socket, I was able to trace the cables which went to 2 other sockets but was all in a ring.
Is this A) Safe B) Legal or is it a grey area.

 

[Murdochcat]

4 grey into a socket in a new build - whilst not specifically against the regs IIRCi was taught that 3 was the maximum

The real issue with 4 cables is that not all sockets can accommodate 4 cables

 

[Jurassicspark]

It is probably a ring with two spurs coming off it. Not an ideal arrangement.

What is the protective device rated at?

, I was able to trace the cables which went to 2 other sockets but was all in a ring.
Is this A) Safe B) Legal or is it a grey area.

What about the other two? Were you able to figure out where those went?

Sounds like a ring originated from the socket with a spur.

 

[ebee]

Well , grey is not the best choice of expressions in electrics because we now have a conductor colour which might be grey and might even be oversleeved with its "real colour" either by use of sleeving (As I prefer) or a flag/wrap of tape or even a coloured cable tie etc.

To answer your question though.
Any point on a ring should have two conductors (point directly on the ring) or could have three conductors if it is a point directly on the ring ang is feeding a spur of either one twin socket or one single socket via say 2.5 T & E cable usually.
There is nothing to stop the spur or any other conductor being larger but must not be smaller unless in MICC such as "Pyro" .
So if say a spur is done in 2 x 2.5 cables of nearly equal lengths it might be considered as effectively a 5.0 conductor.

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

Thanks jurassicspark, the original socket is part of the main ring then the third cable comes off that socket then goes to another socket which is then connected to another socket next to it then from that socket back to the original socket, hence the 4 cables. All wired with 2.5mm T&E and on a 32amp mcb

 

[Jurassicspark]

What is usually plugged in to the sockets which are coming off the original one?

What you have there is a 5.00mm cable which technically is fine.

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

I have a microwave in the original socket and was going to use a toaster and kettle on the other “new sockets”

 

[Jurassicspark]

It's fine and common but you'll need to ensure if it's really a loop.

A continuity tester will easily rule it out under 60 seconds.

 

[blup]

Is the main circuit from the CU a radial circuit, and what size cable e.g. 4mm2? When you say it was all in a ring, do you mean the cables returned to the same socket, or could it be a series of spurs off?

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

Thanks again jurassicspark I will try continuity and let you know. Much appreciated you taking the time to explain.

 

[Jurassicspark]

I will try continuity and let you know. Much appreciated you taking the time to explain.

With the power off before doing the test.

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

The circuit is a ring main in 2.5mm T&E as I tried all sockets when I disconnected supply to see what was going on. Yes the cables run from the CU. All original sockets have 2x2.5mm cables in them. BTW thank you for helping

 

[Oggyoggyoggy]

Yes I have some knowledge of electrics and safety is one of them.

 

[ebee]

With a ring connected as a ring spurred of a ring itself it might concentrate the loads onto that point from which the spur originates, that might actually not be as desirable as trying to stick (very loosely not rigidly ) to one of two handy guides :-

1/ consider placing all loads evenly spread around the ring itself and or 2/ concentrate the most part of the load around the approx middle third portion of the ring - both are designed to assist on putting similar loads around the cable for the aging process more than anything. when we look at such loads we might consider them not just as maximums but more of "averages" with regard to the load itself and duration of usage. It is more the "back of a fag packet" rather than a detailed calculation to avoid doing something that resembles a radial circuit then bringing the end point on its own cable back to the fuse-way which negates a lot of the advantage of a ring anyway.

Note - rings and radials both have their own advantages and disadvantages when compare one against the other.