Quick question: two-way dimmer onto one-way box / circuit

Joined
12 May 2006
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Hampshire
Country
United Kingdom
Hello all!

I'm extremely novice-y at DIY things, but have done some simple electrical stuff. So, hopefully a quick question...

I need to replace a four-gang straightforward on-off one-way light switch with a dimmer switch version. And the only four-gang dimmers I can find that are the sensible side of about forty quid are two-way ones.

I can't think of any reason why a two-way switch couldn't / shouldn't be fitted on a one-way circuit, but is it just a case of there being extra connections in the dimmer that I don't need and don't use... or are there other pitfalls to watch out for?

Thanks!

Simon
 
Sponsored Links
2 ways will be fine. i suggest you make yourself a diagram of what goes where.
 
A two-way switch has three terminals, a one-way just two terminals. Read the 'FAQ- For Reference' post at the top of this forum to see the various ways these terminals are labelled.
 
Many thanks! The FAQ sort of helps... ans sort of doesn't. At least it explains why one terminal is labelled 'C'!

I had the old switch unscrewed off the wall last night, and then put it back on again, pending the purchase of some little pieces of wire to connect the new one's innards up! (The old ones connect differently so the previous bits don't reach.)

All I need to figure out now is why -- both in the diagrams and in the wire poking out the wall -- there's one of the cables with yellow and blue wires. Never seen that before, thought we had red/black or blue/brown. Off to read the FAQ further, but replies very welcome ;)

Cheers, Simon
 
Sponsored Links
How to wire a replacement (three or) four-gang switch (eg a dimmer)

I now feel like I could cure a rainy day! Fixed it, and report it here as it was just so damned simple in the end that others similarly perplexed might benefit from my new-found genius! ;)

I was replacing a four-gang one-way-operating switch, and the dimmer was a potentially two-way one. The lettering on the old switch was confusing (A1, A2 and B, etc), as was the V-shaped arrangement.

But all you have to do for a one-way set-up is this... (after turning off the mains! ;))

Each switch in the 'gang' is a separate switch. So it needs an 'in' and an 'out' for the leccy to flow through -- a live and a neutral wire going to it. So in a two-way switch you've got three terminals each: L1, L2 and C.

L is Live, and there's two of them for two-way purposes: that's the L1 and L2. The terminal labelled C is for something called Common, just to confuse you. Ignore whateverthehell 'common' is, and think of it as Neutral.

Your conventionally-coloured cable from the wall has three wires -- a red and a black (or would it be a blue and a brown in more modern homes?), and an earth, probably connected to the back of the metal box.

So you've got one live wire, and you need to connect it to all four switches. Still with me?

So what you do is link all the 'live' terminals of the switches together -- all the things labelled L1 -- with bits of wire. (I assume that you'd link all the L2's together too if it's a two way, but again someone will correct me if not.)

For some reason best known to the manufacturers, this is not done already. You have to provide your own 'strapping' wires.

Get some cable that has either red or brown wire. Someone can correct me if it must be only one or other of those, but the principle is that you need to indicate 'live'. About half a meter will do, but you'll need more than you might think just by looking at the 'straps' required.

Extract the wire from the cable and, measuring against the switch, cut more than enough to reach from one L1 to the next. Strip the ends and link 'em up, L1 to L1 across the switches.

Then connect the Red (or brown?) live wire from the wall to the first switch, into its first L1 -- into the same terminal as the strap wire.

So each switch now has a live source going in, linked across from the first one by the straps. It now just needs an 'out', the neutral.

The first, normally-coloured neutral (black, or blue?) then goes into the C terminal of the first switch. That first switch is now connected.

Then take that other cable in the wall, the one with the confusing, never-seen-those-colours-on-cables-before colours. Effectively (and I don't care if the terminology is right here), they are all neutrals, one for each light / thing that's separately switched. So put one wire each from there into the C (ie, as above, the 'neutral') terminal of each switch.

As far as I can see, the only difference each one makes is which light etc is then operated by that switch.

Screw it back on the wall and turn the power on again.

As I say, I couldn't quite believe that my thinking-it-through, after being stumped by diagrams that didn't match what I was seeing, had worked.

So I hope I'm not telling anyone anything wrong, but I hope I've described what I did clearly, and it worked for me...

If in any doubt, though, call an electrician. Me, I'm spending the fifty quid I've saved on new light fittings ;).
 
OolonColluphid said:
How to wire a replacement (three or) four-gang switch (eg a dimmer)

Each switch in the 'gang' is a separate switch. So it needs an 'in' and an 'out' for the leccy to flow through -- a live and a neutral wire going to it. So in a two-way switch you've got three terminals each: L1, L2 and C.

Wrong.
You have a live feed and a switched live. You do not have any neutrals at your switch.

L is Live, and there's two of them for two-way purposes: that's the L1 and L2. The terminal labelled C is for something called Common, just to confuse you. Ignore whateverthehell 'common' is, and think of it as Neutral.

Wrong.
You do not have any neutrals at your switch.

Your conventionally-coloured cable from the wall has three wires -- a red and a black (or would it be a blue and a brown in more modern homes?), and an earth, probably connected to the back of the metal box.

Correct.
But the black (or blue) wire should have either red sleeving or red tape on it.

So you've got one live wire, and you need to connect it to all four switches. Still with me?

Yep.

So what you do is link all the 'live' terminals of the switches together -- all the things labelled L1 -- with bits of wire. (I assume that you'd link all the L2's together too if it's a two way, but again someone will correct me if not.)

Wrong.
With a setup like you have you need to link all the 'COMMON' terminals together. Also you never need to link 'L1' or 'L2' terminals.

For some reason best known to the manufacturers, this is not done already. You have to provide your own 'strapping' wires.

This is becuase you do not need the commons linked in all circumstances, and in some cases this would make the switch unuseable

Get some cable that has either red or brown wire. Someone can correct me if it must be only one or other of those, but the principle is that you need to indicate 'live'. About half a meter will do, but you'll need more than you might think just by looking at the 'straps' required.

Correct. Use the same colour as the existing wires to avoid confusion and the need to display a 'mixed wiring colours' sticker

Extract the wire from the cable and, measuring against the switch, cut more than enough to reach from one L1 to the next. Strip the ends and link 'em up, L1 to L1 across the switches.

Wrong.
Substitute 'L1' for 'common'

Then connect the Red (or brown?) live wire from the wall to the first switch, into its first L1 -- into the same terminal as the strap wire.

Wrong.
See above.

So each switch now has a live source going in, linked across from the first one by the straps. It now just needs an 'out', the neutral.

Wrong.
There are no neutrals at your switch. The "out wires" are switched lives.

The first, normally-coloured neutral (black, or blue?) then goes into the C terminal of the first switch. That first switch is now connected.

Wrong.
There are no neutrals at your switch. It is a switched live.
This should be connected to the L1 terminal of the first switch. It should also have red (or brown) sleeving or tape on it.

Then take that other cable in the wall, the one with the confusing, never-seen-those-colours-on-cables-before colours. Effectively (and I don't care if the terminology is right here), they are all neutrals, one for each light / thing that's separately switched. So put one wire each from there into the C (ie, as above, the 'neutral') terminal of each switch.

Wrong.
There are no neutrals at your switch. They are all switched lives.
The cable is a standard three core and earth.
Each wire should be connected to the 'L1' terminal of each respective switch. Each wire should also have red (or brown) sleeving or tape on it.

As far as I can see, the only difference each one makes is which light etc is then operated by that switch.

Seems to be.

Screw it back on the wall and turn the power on again.

As I say, I couldn't quite believe that my thinking-it-through, after being stumped by diagrams that didn't match what I was seeing, had worked.

It works but it isnt right.

So I hope I'm not telling anyone anything wrong, but I hope I've described what I did clearly, and it worked for me...

You are telling people wrong.

If in any doubt, though, call an electrician.

Like you should have done.

Me, I'm spending the fifty quid I've saved on new light fittings ;).

Why not save it for an electrician next time?

The setup you have is a bit unusual and you got it nearly right. I hope you will take on board this information and correct the wiring at your switch.
 
There are no neutrals at your switch. It is a switched live.
This should be connected to the L1 terminal of the first switch. It should also have red (or brown) sleeving or tape on it.
Is there any particular reason for doing it that way or is it just a convention you like to follow?
 
Sorry I don't quite understand what you mean? Are you refering to the neutrals, the use of 'L1' or the use of sleeving?
 
OolonColluphid said:
it was just so damned simple in the end that others similarly perplexed might benefit from my new-found genius! ;)
sorry to rain on yoor parade, but please do not give advice to that which you do not know or understand.

i appreaciate you are trying to be helpful, but as RF Lighting pointed out, most of your "assumptions" are incorrect.

as my late father used to say, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
 
RF Lighting said:
Sorry I don't quite understand what you mean? Are you refering to the neutrals, the use of 'L1' or the use of sleeving?
the use of L1 for the switched live and COM for the permanent live rather than the other way round.
 
Don't forget with a dimmer, you can use L1 or L2 for the s/wire - the effect is the same!
 
plugwash said:
There are no neutrals at your switch. It is a switched live.
This should be connected to the L1 terminal of the first switch. It should also have red (or brown) sleeving or tape on it.
Is there any particular reason for doing it that way or is it just a convention you like to follow?

I can see what you mean now. Its convention, live in common switched live in either L1 or L2 depending on the switch, normally L1
 
Okay. As far as I can see, I've pretty much duplicated what was in the old toggle switch, and translated it into language that people like me with O Level physics can understand.

So what I was terming 'neutrals' are 'switched lives'...? I thought I was making clear that I neither knew nor cared whether they are technically live, neutral, switched live or had water flowing in them. You need one of each sort at each switch, correct? And 'live' and 'neutral' mean something in an area where -- sorry to put it like this but I spent five days trying to get my head round this stuff -- where anally retentive jargon is thrown around and there seems to be no glossary available. I tried to find one. And all I found was stuff about phase circuits. I need to know that stuff why? I want to wire a switch. It is not rocket science, but it seems the aeronautical engineers want you to think it is. Emperors and clothes, anyone?

If there's something actually wrong in my (fully functioning) switch, I'll change it. As far as I can see, it may only be that the C's are the ones that should be linked, and the L1s should have the other wires into them. Does it, in fact, matter? Anyone who knows what it should be will tut and change it round, and anyone who doesn't won't need to care because it works.

Put it this way: I damned near tore my hair out staring for hours at diagrams (that may or may not have been appropriate, who the hell knows, if someone does they ain't telling), diagrams that plain do not make sense -- no explanation of 'why', of 'what this means' -- and at two different switches with different terminal codes.

Damned right I'm cross. If someone had answered my questions beyond pointing my at the FAQs I wouldn't have had to figure it out for myself.

See ya. :rolleyes:
 
Ah. No Edit button here. Ah well...

Just to apologise. 'Rant in haste, repent at leisure.' :oops: Still miffed that I managed to get a working switch that apparently isn't right (like I should care, as long as it works), though.

I think the old switch may have been wired incorrectly. The picture at:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/MK/WiringDiagrams.pdf
(4th one down) seems nearest to what I have. It shows the live going to the common, but on the old switch it went into the same terminal as the first switch's strap wire. Oh, and...
RF Lighting said:
With a setup like you have you need to link all the 'COMMON' terminals together. Also you never need to link 'L1' or 'L2' terminals.
What's going on in that fourth diagram then? <confused>

Between switches with A1, A2, B and such, and info like this, is it any surprise if someone gets it wrong? Sure, 'call an electrician'. You should not have to for something basic like this!
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top