Rayburn PJ Ecoflame burner

[Peter.N.]

I posted a few weeks ago regarding this burner as it would start up, run for a minute or two and then go out. I cleaned the fuel supply out as there was some sediment in the pump and its worked perfectly for several weeks, yesterday it started doing it again. I have cleaned the system today but the fuel seems to be running freely, I cleaned the pump out with carburettor cleaner, fitted another jet and put it back together - its still doing it

Sometimes it will go out and then fire up again while the fan is still running, other times it will not fire up at all. I am at a loss.

Thanks

Peter

 

[Burnerman]

I think its time for a pressure check on the pump, Peter, plus a CO2 analysis of the flue gases......the pressure if low may give some smoke, or if there's too much air may blow the flame out. A faulty nozzle may cause the flame to dart about too, confusing the photocell. Its not a good move to strip the nozzle down, unfortunately.
Have you delved into the depths of the boiler and cleaned the baffles out?
John

 

[Peter.N.]

Hello John, fancy seeing you here

I do suspect the pump but its strange how most times if fires up immediately and runs perhaps for a couple of minutes, the water just starts to get warm and out it goes. I have looked through the inspection hole on the top and the flame appears to be quite clean and even, I fitted a replacement nozzle thinking perhaps that the dirt had got through the pump and clogged it but the filter on it was clean.

I don't have any servicing equipment, I don't think and AVO or Lexia will help a lot with this problem.

I had thought of dismantling the pump to see if it is dirty inside, is that worth doing?

Its blowing a gale here at the moment, the strongest winds we have had so far, the stove is alight but there is a fearful cold draught across the floor, so would like to get it fixed.

Peter

 

[oilhead]

Without checking the pump pressure and combustion analysis it is difficult to be more objective. You can also throw photocell and control box into the equation, but until you have followed a recognised procedure, you can spend lots of money.

 

[Peter.N.]

That's what I was afraid of. I think the photocell is working OK as the boiler starts if there is a flame and shuts down if there isn't. I might be able to rig up a pressure gauge but don't know what the pressure should be.

I have a Worcester boiler in the garage that I bought several years ago, as we don't use the Rayburn for cooking now I may well install that, it should be more efficient at heating water than the Rayburn and quieter.

Peter

 

[Burnerman]

Obviously there's lots of 'could be' issues here, Peter but unfortunately without some equipment its difficult to start.
However.....with a pressure gauge attached to the pump port marked 'P' a reading will be obtained thats in the region of (say) 105 psi up to 140 psi. The reading should be stable and if the pump can deliver the recommended pressure or higher it doesn't need replacing. The factory setting for pumps is often around 10 bar.
Next, a flue gas analysis at the gas sampling point needs to be in the region of 10.5 to 11.5% CO2. The air supply into the burner is altered to achieve this.
Now with the Rayburns I've found that the flue ways aren't efficient at all and ideally need cleaning every 6 months of frequent use. The problem areas are the baffles above the burner themselves and the horizontal flue way heading for the chimney.
I presume you've checked the obvious things for faults, like the tank filter / water separating bowl....again your problem could be one of fuel starvation.
Regards
John

 

[oilhead]

The PJ does not have baffles, just a brick lined combustion chamber, so I doubt that will be a problem. Only the bottom needs to be kept clear of shale, and the rear of the back bricks, but that only affects the temperature of water.
One other point that's not been mentioned is the solenoid coil and until two weeks ago, I would not have considered it, but I encountered a Monoflame burner with a Danfoss pump, and this would run up to temperature, cut off on the thermostat, but lockout on start up.
It always started on reset, But after trying everything else, I metered the coil as soon as it locked out and it was open. The only conclusion I could come to was that the temperature in the casing ( the water jacket was not insulated) was affecting the coil. The temperature in the burner compartment can get very high on a PJ.
Even after all these years, you never stop learning.

 

[Peter.N.]

Thanks folks but I think the problem has manifest itself this morning, it fired up OK and went out after a minute or so but the pump is making horrible graunching noise, sounds like a bearing, so I now have to decide what to do. There are new pumps on ebay for about £60-100 but there is a complete burner with a 99p start but its in Shropshire, not that |I mind so much, good excuse for a sight seeing trip. I once bought an XM 2.1 diesel engine in Newcastle.

I may decide to fit the Worcester boiler, I bough that on ebay in Telford, only paid £12 for it though as the case was damaged.

I suppose the Worcester doesn't have the same pump? Its a 12/19 or something similar.

Peter

 

[Burnerman]

Just as a guess Peter but the other boiler pump could well be a BFP41L3.
I don't know your particular burner but some have a plastic drive dog between the motor, fan and pump....if the splines strip they make a goodly racket.
John

 

[oilhead]

The PJ burner will have a BFP11R3, but you can use a 21R3, your Worcester boiler will have a 'L' pump.

 

[oilhead]

Meant to add, I wouldn't travel all that way to look at a 2nd hand burner. Replace bits, or look at a complete new burner.

 

[Peter.N.]

Well, I have just taken the pump to bits, cleaned all the crud out and its working perfectly except for a clatter that seems to be something to do with the motor coupling, I shall have another go at it later on. There is no play in the pump or motor bearings, the only thing I found was that the allen screws that fix the pump to the motor were loose.

I don't mind travelling for things, we are retired and its an excuse for a couple of days away, the money I have saved on some of my purchases has paid for the trip and we have visited some interesting places, we went to Iron Bridge when I bought the boiler.

Peter