Removing switch/socket box extenders

I was under the impression those two accessories were fitted to surface mounted boxes.

They appear to be flush.

They can't be any more flush than that.
screenshot_617.jpg


:confused:
 
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Yes, I've paid them already.
Too late, then.
Not too late to do as much as possible by word of mouth (and letters of complaint to any publications where you see them advertising) to make it known what a bunch of cowboys they are.

He should not have had to specify flush boxes - it should have been done that way without any need for that.
 
Yes, I've paid them already.
Too late, then.
Not too late to do as much as possible by word of mouth (and letters of complaint to any publications where you see them advertising) to make it known what a bunch of cowboys they are.

He should not have had to specify flush boxes - it should have been done that way without any need for that.

True, and I would also expect that the plastering be patched up better than it has been. The job's not finished.
 
He should not have had to specify flush boxes - it should have been done that way without any need for that.
To be fair, it surely depends upon what (if anything) was specified in the quotation/estimate which the OP (presumably) 'accepted', doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John
 
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He should not have had to specify flush boxes - it should have been done that way without any need for that.
To be fair, it surely depends upon what (if anything) was specified in the quotation/estimate which the OP (presumably) 'accepted', doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John

Not sure I agree with you there. I would expect the installer to use flush fitting wall boxes, and to inform me of any exceptions to that and the reasons for it. I suspect here the only reason is a saving in time and effort.
 
To be fair, it surely depends upon what (if anything) was specified in the quotation/estimate which the OP (presumably) 'accepted', doesn't it?
Not sure I agree with you there. I would expect the installer to use flush fitting wall boxes, and to inform me of any exceptions to that and the reasons for it.
I don't really understand that. If a consumer has read, and accepted without question, a quotation which specified that the accessories would be surface mounted, how could (s)he (or anyone) 'expect' that they would be flush-mounted? One would, of course, usually expect such matters to be discussed before the quotation was drawn up - but that doesn't excuse a customer who 'accepts' a quotation which specifies something they don't want!
I suspect here the only reason is a saving in time and effort.
Yes, probably - although "saving time and effort" also theoretically means less labour charge! Of course, some customers may actually prefer to not have decoration potentially disrupted in a part of the house (landing in this case) otehr than that actually being re-fitted/renovated - although that's clearly not the case with this thread.

Kind Regards, John.
 
To be fair, it surely depends upon what (if anything) was specified in the quotation/estimate which the OP (presumably) 'accepted', doesn't it?
Not sure I agree with you there. I would expect the installer to use flush fitting wall boxes, and to inform me of any exceptions to that and the reasons for it.
I don't really understand that. If a consumer has read, and accepted without question, a quotation which specified that the accessories would be surface mounted, how could (s)he (or anyone) 'expect' that they would be flush-mounted? One would, of course, usually expect such matters to be discussed before the quotation was drawn up - but that doesn't excuse a customer who 'accepts' a quotation which specifies something they don't want!
I suspect here the only reason is a saving in time and effort.
Yes, probably - although "saving time and effort" also theoretically means less labour charge! Of course, some customers may actually prefer to not have decoration potentially disrupted in a part of the house (landing in this case) otehr than that actually being re-fitted/renovated - although that's clearly not the case with this thread.

Kind Regards, John.

If the quote has specified that surface mounted will be used then I wouldn't expect anything different. If that was not detailed, then I would expect them to be chopped in and mounted flush, and that the quote includes all such labour and materials.

In any event, I would expect a better standard of finish than that evident in the photos....
 
If the quote has specified that surface mounted will be used then I wouldn't expect anything different.
Exactly - that is the (only) point I was making - i.e. that BAS was 'jumping to conclusions' ('assuming the worst') without actually knowing what the quotation/estimate did or did not say.
If that was not detailed, then I would expect them to be chopped in and mounted flush, and that the quote includes all such labour and materials.
You may well 'expect' that, but making assumptions about things which are not explicitly specified in a quotation (or whatever) is a very common source of conflict between contractors and customers! Also, don't forget that, as I said, it is not a foregone conclusion that all customers would actually want flush accessories in this situation - so it's definitely something that needs to be agreed between contractor and customer up-front, and ideally documented in writing.

Kind Regards, John
 
If the quote has specified that surface mounted will be used then I wouldn't expect anything different.
Exactly - that is the (only) point I was making - i.e. that BAS was 'jumping to conclusions' ('assuming the worst') without actually knowing what the quotation/estimate did or did not say.
If that was not detailed, then I would expect them to be chopped in and mounted flush, and that the quote includes all such labour and materials.
You may well 'expect' that, but making assumptions about things which are not explicitly specified in a quotation (or whatever) is a very common source of conflict between contractors and customers! Also, don't forget that, as I said, it is not a foregone conclusion that all customers would actually want flush accessories in this situation - so it's definitely something that needs to be agreed between contractor and customer up-front, and ideally documented in writing.

Kind Regards, John

Agreed, and I spend a lot of my working life as a customer using contractors on very large contracts and being sometimes in dispute with them about what is assumed to be included....and the only lesson I can draw from that is that it is impossible with reasonable time and budget constraints to draw up a contract that covers every item in great detail, so some things are assumed because they are custom and practice.

In this particular instance, if it was my house, I would have held part of the final invoice back.
 
....and the only lesson I can draw from that is that it is impossible with reasonable time and budget constraints to draw up a contract that covers every item in great detail, so some things are assumed because they are custom and practice.
At some level, that obvioulsy has to be the case - there is clearly a limit to what degree of detail can realistically be specified. However, as for "custom and practice", as I've said, in the sort of case we are talking about some customers would probably not want (the hassle/disruption of having) flush accessories installed in some other part of their house, so I'm not sure it is necessarily appropriate to assume that documentary silence implicitly means flush accessories.

In this particular instance, if it was my house, I would have held part of the final invoice back.
Fair enough - but everyone continues to assume that the quotation did not specify surface accessories on the landing.

Kind Regards, John
 
I didn't have a written contract and we didn't discuss such details. They offered a good price, which included a complete bathroom refit with rewiring, re-tiling and fitting any and all fixtures and fittings I wanted. They'd ask me where I wanted them to fit what, mark it out with a pencil and do it. When it came to placing the accessories, I only showed them where I wanted them, without specifying flush or surface mounted. At the time I wasn't even aware that there were 2 ways of mounting. After the job was complete I said I was happy (with the exception of a few things, which they corrected), because the bathroom was done decently for the price. Later on I realised there was something 'wrong' with those accessories, that they didn't have to be that way.

The landing will undergo a complete re-decoration, so I'm not too worried about the less-than-perfect plastering.

I'd like to replace all switches throughout the house with a different type (with a touch sensor), which will require deeper boxes as the switches themselves are 35mm deep and I need to add at least 5mm for the wires. I'm going to have a go at it myself, using a masonry drill and a chisel. I've ordered some 40mm deep plastic flush boxes from China, hopefully they're deep enough.

The builders are going on holidays now for 2 months, they'll be back in mid September and I have another job for them when they're back - adding a new en-suite cloakroom. I'll tell them I want all accessories flush mounted.
 
Why plastic boxes from China? Why not steel backboxes from your local Screwfix, assuming its a masonry wall?

Not that I've ever fitted touchswitch light switches, maybe that's what's normally used...
 
....and the only lesson I can draw from that is that it is impossible with reasonable time and budget constraints to draw up a contract that covers every item in great detail, so some things are assumed because they are custom and practice.
At some level, that obvioulsy has to be the case - there is clearly a limit to what degree of detail can realistically be specified. However, as for "custom and practice", as I've said, in the sort of case we are talking about some customers would probably not want (the hassle/disruption of having) flush accessories installed in some other part of their house, so I'm not sure it is necessarily appropriate to assume that documentary silence implicitly means flush accessories.

In this particular instance, if it was my house, I would have held part of the final invoice back.
Fair enough - but everyone continues to assume that the quotation did not specify surface accessories on the landing.

Kind Regards, John
OK, you are clearly kinder to your contractors than I am :)
 
OK, you are clearly kinder to your contractors than I am :)
I wouldn't say that, but I certainly do all I can to avoid potentially difficult and tedious arguments about what (unwritten) things were assumed/implied by a contract. Although, as you've said, there is a limit to how far one can go, I certainly always attempt to make clear, and document, all aspects of the specification that particularly matter to me, without any reliance on 'unwritten assumptions' (even for things that some people might regard as 'obvious'). However, that's all in the name of hopefully making my subsequent life easier, not "being kind to contractors"!

Kind Regards, John
 

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