Replacement combi...

[lawrance]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

 

[joesoap1]

5 year + warrantys ? Alpha I beleive give a 10 year warranty on a boiler ?? lamborgini/ferroli a 7 year warranty ?? all at the point of sale ?

5 year warrantys are fairly common now, Ideal , Biasi , ect & u do not have to be an approved installer like for instance Worcestor !

Even ravenheat give a 3 year warranty on there boilers


I have absolute confidence in all boiler manus , when they start getting to many call outs , profits start takeing a hit ? they will weasle ther way out of it some how , & than some installer will be getting a call about some boiler he installed 4 years & 11 months ago

Boiler manufacturers ?? rule of thumb ? pick the best of a bad bunch & hope u get it right ?? Maybe ??

Hi, My Vokero is 17+ and still good.They are excellent at advice over phone or e-mail technical.I take your point on the regularity of servicing, I have mine done annually, however, I do not think it neccessary.If the Manufacturers think their products are so good, then, they should be able to run quite adaquately for 2 years before a service.You don,t MOT a new car till it,s 3, but they expect it to be seviced annually.I am a strong believer in servicing, as a, time served ex engineer.BUT, I know a lot of it,s totally unnescessary.My 10 year old BMW, 20000 from new, is in garage practically all year, yet it has passed only 1 MOT without them finding something to do.MAIN dealer.It,s done 100 miles in last year,and it,s MOt is next month.Bet it fails; A lot of it,s a scam.You have more faith in Manuswarantees than me, through experience.I,ve stuck to main dealer, done everything by the book, but every time there has been a fault, they have reneged, even down to a 50p light bulb.You do not get what you pay for today I,m afraid, but I,m the eternal sceptic.cheers HNY

 

[joesoap1]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

 

[lawrance]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

That expalins your floundering wisdom

 

[joesoap1]

Warrantys ??? alot of these boiler warrantys are probably not worth the paper they are written on (may be ?) some of them will ? or may ? end in tears ? & come back to bite the installer on th a*** , some years down the line !

If an installer purchases a boiler through a stockist/merchants , they have no contract what so ever with the manufacturer ( unless they have a prior agreement ) any warranty given or offered by the boiler manu is to the end user/customer only ! any installer that is giving a 5 year warranty to there customer directly on a boiler , would be best advised to think very carefully ??? may be ??

There,s the nub.The Manufacturer will automatically blame fitter to nullify the warantee.Didn,t flush right or some other petty thing that CANNOT be proved so the end user is left to his own devices. which inevitibly means paying someone else to rectify it.There,s no loyalty today Im afraid.Also, how many" here today gone tomorrow "tradesmen are there these days. Far too many I,m afraid, and it tarnishes the whole industry.They set up, go bankrupt, then set up again, another name.

 

[transam]

Joesoap I have very little faith in any boiler manu's warrantys !

Car warrantys , as i understand it this was taken up with the EU some years ago , some directive was issued that meant u did not have to take your car back to a main dealer for serviceing ect in order to meet the terms of any warranty !

However what has or will occur ?? is that the manus will not supply certain tech details to independant garages , or will make it more difficult to obtain certain information ect which will force people to go to the main dealer !!

fitted a cylinder the other day 25 year warranty

To that cylinder manu yeah alright

 

[joesoap1]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

That expalins your floundering wisdom

When you have illiminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

 

[lawrance]

There,s no loyalty today Im afraid.Also, how many" here today gone tomorrow "tradesmen are there these days. Far too many I,m afraid, and it tarnishes the whole industry.They set up, go bankrupt, then set up again, another name.[/quote]

Like I said floundering wisdom.

 

[lawrance]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

That expalins your floundering wisdom

When you have illiminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

LMFAO
You are not Sherlock Holmes

 

[joesoap1]

Joesoap I have very little faith in any boiler manu's warrantys !

Car warrantys , as i understand it this was taken up with the EU some years ago , some directive was issued that meant u did not have to take your car back to a main dealer for serviceing ect in order to meet the terms of any warranty !

However what has or will occur ?? is that the manus will not supply certain tech details to independant garages , or will make it more difficult to obtain certain information ect which will force people to go to the main dealer !!

fitted a cylinder the other day 25 year warranty

To that cylinder manu yeah alright

Hi Transam, unfortunately we are neither in ,nor out of the EU.We Brits, take too much in our stride, don,t complain enough.That,s what we,re told. I,ve tried that, and to no avail. Like you ,I too do not have faith in any Manufacturers warrantee, be it boiler or car etc. We cannot all be wrong:all of the time;

 

[transam]

There are not many ( if any at all ?) installers that have not lost time & money & had there reps damaged by boiler manufacturers & there c**p products , how many have repaired boilers at there own expense ??

You read articles in the trade press written by some pencil pushing MD of some boiler manu , who probably knows very little if anything about his product , sounding off about how much installation faults cost boiler manus ect ect yeah right How much do manufacturing faults cost the install industry ???? as they dump yet another state of the art boiler into the market , dump probably being the accurate description??

And lets not forget alot of this rubbish?? has only been fitted en-masse since 2005 ,alot of these 5 year + warrantys have yet to be tested ??

 

[joesoap1]

There are not many ( if any at all ?) installers that have not lost time & money & had there reps damaged by boiler manufacturers & there c**p products , how many have repaired boilers at there own expense ??

You read articles in the trade press written by some pencil pushing MD of some boiler manu , who probably knows very little if anything about his product , sounding off about how much installation faults cost boiler manus ect ect yeah right How much do manufacturing faults cost the install industry ???? as they dump yet another state of the art boiler into the market , dump probably being the accurate description??

And lets not forget alot of this rubbish?? has only been fitted en-masse since 2005 ,alot of these 5 year + warrantys have yet to be tested ??

That,s why I am most reluctant to change. I will only do so if I have to.I have read condensate damages clay pipes, is that so?A lot of my pipework is glazed clay, some plastic, but it al leads to clay eventually.The drain is plastic but don,t know where it changes to clay.No soakaway 600ml available.

 

[joesoap1]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

That expalins your floundering wisdom

When you have illiminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

LMFAO
You are not Sherlock Holmes

elimentary dear boy,

 

[lawrance]

Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....

Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder.

Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination.

That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some.

That expalins your floundering wisdom

When you have illiminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

LMFAO
You are not Sherlock Holmes

elimentary dear boy,

No its elementary my dear boy

 

[vulcancontinental]

joesoap1 and transam,

Just some observations on manufacturer's warranties.

I have installed previously for twenty years, initially as a sub-contractor and then for 17-18 as an independant on my reputation alone. Hundreds if not thousands of installations

As some people know I'm in training with a boiler manufacturer at the moment with a day every so often spent out with a service engineer.

Take last Friday for example;

job: Leak from combi 4 months old. Stains on top of condensate trap into case with signs of a drip from the bottom of the case. All dry when we got there so we had to guess. It might well have been the 22mm uninsulated overflow pipe to outside with a vertical drop of around 4' then 8-9' horizontally with a fall of around an 1" or 2" (undulating due to poor clipping) then drilled and sealed into the bottom of a RWP. Boiler has floats in the condensate trap so back-up of condensate didn't fill HX with potentially contaminated liquid (a good idea in my book).

job: 3 month old combi. Blocked plate we thought as it ran hot then cold etc. Open up NRV and Bypass section in front of the plate to find lots of magnetic particles in that section. Client says it was power-flushed. Service engineer says we don't send boilers out with these particles already installed in them but suggests the householder (now the manufacturers customer of course) should get the system power-flushed again and if that doesn't cure the problem would change the plate as a gesture of goodwill. Not to mention the non-existent M.I. and benchmark book and the condensate left stuck out of the wall onto a beautiful zinc roof.

job: Manufacturing fault on 5 year old boiler covered under insurance.

job: 2 month old boiler, pump stuck. Drained, opened it up, impeller bright red and solid. Installer present "yes I power-flushed this as I do with all my installations." Manufacturers service engineer changed the pump FOC. (Not sure I would have if the decision was mine). Installer asked about becoming a service agent for the manufacturer.

Job: Heat only boiler cutting out intermittently on overheat. Drain down and open up. Internal flow-straightener (mesh) caked with sediment, needed scraping off physically, couldn't wash it off under tap. Customer "we had it power-flushed less than a year ago" which I don't doubt.

Not making any particular point but just mention that the three in-warranty calls were installer problems that will cost the manufacturer money to visit, diagnose and for parts FOC for goodwill as necessary.

Of the other two one was a manufacturers fault so OK and the other was a boiler out of warranty though insured but filled with crap by an installer who carried out some work last year and an incomplete power-flush.
Manufacturer doesn't lose money as the customer is insured but reputation takes a hit as customers often know an installation by the boiler manufacturers name. Fortunately in each case the customer is there and can be shown the evidence.

It's certainly an eye opener, just one day of visits.

Just a different view from the other side of the divide for me and the more I see the more I think if I was installing now I'd form an alliance with whatever manufacturers I liked and do good work for the backup (and leads) I'd want. Manufacturers LOVE good installers and welcome them with open arms to their schemes. If a manufacturer doesn't help the good installer, ditch them as fast as you can and transam you know you have my sympathies in your battles.