Replacement combi...

You make a good point VC , Its always good to see things from a different point of veiw !

You have crossed over to the 'Dark Side ' :) which may be less agravation to u on here , than getting blamed for every thing wrong with warmfront ?? hope it is going well , happy new year :)
 
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Cant do anything about quotes till tomorrow, but been looking at the pipework this aft.... Seems its 15mm in the kitchen, but cant find the feed into the kitchen, wasnt where I thought it was. Got hand up behind a cupboard, and noted it was off a T piece there, and went up. got into the bedroom above, and pulled up a board, and it was 15mm there was well. its def 22mm From the meter, to where it disappears into the floorboards under the 1st floor, but no idea of there the reduction occurs. Question...... The installer I have discussed, said that it would be £130max for worst case scenario for running a new 22mm pipe from Meter. To me that seems cheap, for running approx at least 20m of 22mm copper, lifting boards and making all good after, or do you suppose he will be running along the skirting?? If so, is it legal to run gas pipes into the loft cavity. Its partially converted, with a velux, and the central part carpeted and plasterboarded. The eaves still exist, and if it was run this way, would look far less unsightly...
 
You make a good point VC , Its always good to see things from a different point of veiw !

You have crossed over to the 'Dark Side ' :) which may be less agravation to u on here , than getting blamed for every thing wrong with warmfront ?? hope it is going well , happy new year :)

All's well thank you though my head is spinning with the latest boilers, new technology, solar, heat pumps and fresh stuff I'm hit with every day. Loving it but still finding my feet. May even be able to help someone here one day.

Doesn't worry me about WarmFront as I just made sure everything I did was correct, good for the client and as easy as it could be (or at least possible in the time) for the installer. I know there were many 'less than perfect' jobs elsewhere and that was a shame as I saw lots of people it really helped who were in a pitiful state.

Happy New Year to you and everyone else.
 
joesoap1 and transam,

Just some observations on manufacturer's warranties.

I have installed previously for twenty years, initially as a sub-contractor and then for 17-18 as an independant on my reputation alone. Hundreds if not thousands of installations

As some people know I'm in training with a boiler manufacturer at the moment with a day every so often spent out with a service engineer.

Take last Friday for example;

job: Leak from combi 4 months old. Stains on top of condensate trap into case with signs of a drip from the bottom of the case. All dry when we got there so we had to guess. It might well have been the 22mm uninsulated overflow pipe to outside with a vertical drop of around 4' then 8-9' horizontally with a fall of around an 1" or 2" (undulating due to poor clipping) then drilled and sealed into the bottom of a RWP. Boiler has floats in the condensate trap so back-up of condensate didn't fill HX with potentially contaminated liquid (a good idea in my book).

job: 3 month old combi. Blocked plate we thought as it ran hot then cold etc. Open up NRV and Bypass section in front of the plate to find lots of magnetic particles in that section. Client says it was power-flushed. Service engineer says we don't send boilers out with these particles already installed in them but suggests the householder (now the manufacturers customer of course) should get the system power-flushed again and if that doesn't cure the problem would change the plate as a gesture of goodwill. Not to mention the non-existent M.I. and benchmark book and the condensate left stuck out of the wall onto a beautiful zinc roof.

job: Manufacturing fault on 5 year old boiler covered under insurance.

job: 2 month old boiler, pump stuck. Drained, opened it up, impeller bright red and solid. Installer present "yes I power-flushed this as I do with all my installations." Manufacturers service engineer changed the pump FOC. (Not sure I would have if the decision was mine). Installer asked about becoming a service agent for the manufacturer.

Job: Heat only boiler cutting out intermittently on overheat. Drain down and open up. Internal flow-straightener (mesh) caked with sediment, needed scraping off physically, couldn't wash it off under tap. Customer "we had it power-flushed less than a year ago" which I don't doubt.

Not making any particular point but just mention that the three in-warranty calls were installer problems that will cost the manufacturer money to visit, diagnose and for parts FOC for goodwill as necessary.

Of the other two one was a manufacturers fault so OK and the other was a boiler out of warranty though insured but filled with crap by an installer who carried out some work last year and an incomplete power-flush.
Manufacturer doesn't lose money as the customer is insured but reputation takes a hit as customers often know an installation by the boiler manufacturers name. Fortunately in each case the customer is there and can be shown the evidence.

It's certainly an eye opener, just one day of visits.

Just a different view from the other side of the divide for me and the more I see the more I think if I was installing now I'd form an alliance with whatever manufacturers I liked and do good work for the backup (and leads) I'd want. Manufacturers LOVE good installers and welcome them with open arms to their schemes. If a manufacturer doesn't help the good installer, ditch them as fast as you can and transam you know you have my sympathies in your battles.
Hi, Thanks very much for your excellent reply.My friend was service engineer for worcester, now has set up on his own. I installed my own worcester, years ago, and manufactures were good, did minor niggles I had, no problem.As I mentioned, my Vokera has been great, and cannot fault their technical dept.My friend said he left because worcester were not fullfilling their responsibility and he was taking the brunt of customers complaints.He says they have deteriorated in customer service so although he would still reccomend their boilers, he couldn,t reccommend ,after care.He would do my boiler change, if and when required.In my experience of only bying the best I can afford, I have found manufactures today lacking, but that,s a personal view.A boiler is slightly different than other products becauseif anything happens then the end user cannot take it back to where it was purchased, like other goods, it,s a chain event, and no one seems to want to admit liability.However, like everything, one can only do as much homework as possible, get reccommendations, and hope one has made the right choice. only time will tell.Cheers.Happy new year.
 
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You make a good point VC , Its always good to see things from a different point of veiw !

You have crossed over to the 'Dark Side ' :) which may be less agravation to u on here , than getting blamed for every thing wrong with warmfront ?? hope it is going well , happy new year :)
Hi, Transam, I didn,t know about you and Warmfront, but I am eligible for their grant for a new boiler, when mine packs up.Signed their paperwork about 12 months ago. However, reading reports about them, good and bad, and the fact that one has to wait such a long time for instal, it,s urging me to pay myself and go independant.here it,s Eaga, and I was told they only instal one type of boiler. Not the best IDEAL, I believe.I would be interested in your opinion, if it,s not such a sore point.Had roof done with them , but declined wall insulation, due to random stone.Sorry I have boo-bood with post. :oops:

All's well thank you though my head is spinning with the latest boilers, new technology, solar, heat pumps and fresh stuff I'm hit with every day. Loving it but still finding my feet. May even be able to help someone here one day.

Doesn't worry me about WarmFront as I just made sure everything I did was correct, good for the client and as easy as it could be (or at least possible in the time) for the installer. I know there were many 'less than perfect' jobs elsewhere and that was a shame as I saw lots of people it really helped who were in a pitiful state.

Happy New Year to you and everyone else.
 
Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......

I will ask these questions Tues, when hes likely to answer the phone, and then get a couple more quotes. Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance.....
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.Charge the earth.Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Hny

Befoe you look to knock other people I suggest you sort your grammar out goat herder. :LOL:
Befoe, you dyslexic too ?

Its in your imagination. :LOL:
That,s my good point, my imagination, and I used to keep goats years ago,Anglo Nubians."No", it,s not a car: probably before your time.They were clever animals, unlike some. :p

That expalins your floundering wisdom :rolleyes:
When you have illiminated the impossible,whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. :idea:

LMFAO
You are not Sherlock Holmes :LOL:
elimentary dear boy,:cool:

No its elementary my dear boy :mrgreen:
Just testing, :!:
 
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.

Thats very kind of you, do you provide hay and water for the horses as well as tea and biscuits?

There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.

Where might that be then.......the south east by any chance?

Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Just like on here, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. HNY

Now you've just gone and contradicted yourself, one minute you put a big bar up outside for the numerous cowboys to come and quote for works.....

the next minute you SAY luckily you know a few good ones! which is it to be?

Look pal most customers have not got the basic intelligence to weed out the wheat from the chaf and I would put a bullsh1tter like you squarely their.

Hell you can't even lie correctly without contradicting yourself in the same post. :LOL:
 
Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......


Is that an attempt at an apology???? It has finally clicked for our hard of thinking..certainly won't be hard working public sector friend, that after 3-4 pages of everyone apart from tomplumb1 who! incidnetly isn't a plumber...has been saying the same thing;

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW THE MATERIAL COSTS, JUST WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING FOR THE PRICE.

Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance

Another customer who knows it will be straight forward, why don't you just do it yourself then? Just like the customers who say it's just a bathroom suite out and the new one straight in If only they knew, but that the point they don't.

Look moron, select three companies from within a 15 mile radius, ensure they are Gas Safe Registere, have a landline number and company address.

Tell them to list the make and model of boiler you can choose, tell them to itemise what they are including in the price.

Chr1st!! I could've built a boiler and had fitted by now :rolleyes:

God help the installer that you choose, for if he had seen this post....he run a mile from you.
 
Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......


Is that an attempt at an apology???? It has finally clicked for our hard of thinking..certainly won't be hard working public sector friend, that after 3-4 pages of everyone apart from tomplumb1 who! incidnetly isn't a plumber...has been saying the same thing;

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW THE MATERIAL COSTS, JUST WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING FOR THE PRICE.

Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance

Another customer who knows it will be straight forward, why don't you just do it yourself then? Just like the customers who say it's just a bathroom suite out and the new one straight in If only they knew, but that the point they don't.

Look moron, select three companies from within a 15 mile radius, ensure they are Gas Safe Registere, have a landline number and company address.

Tell them to list the make and model of boiler you can choose, tell them to itemise what they are including in the price.

Chr1st!! I could've built a boiler and had fitted by now :rolleyes:

God help the installer that you choose, for if he had seen this post....he run a mile from you.

Listen idiot, dont post on this topic again. i dont take kindly to insults like this, and I wouldnt dream of apologising to a numpty like you. Just give it a rest eh....
 
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.

Thats very kind of you, do you provide hay and water for the horses as well as tea and biscuits?

There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.

Where might that be then.......the south east by any chance?

Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Just like on here, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. HNY

Now you've just gone and contradicted yourself, one minute you put a big bar up outside for the numerous cowboys to come and quote for works.....

the next minute you SAY luckily you know a few good ones! which is it to be?

Look pal most customers have not got the basic intelligence to weed out the wheat from the chaf and I would put a bullsh1tter like you squarely their.

Hell you can't even lie correctly without contradicting yourself in the same post. :LOL:
1, Sense of humour helps when dealing with the likes of yourself, obviously , you have none.2 Esholt is where I live. EMERDALE to you.Leeds, and NO, I am not a Yorkshireman.3.I have put 3 of my own boilers in, am a retired ex engineer,time served with 50 years under my belt. not a fitter. I do know plenty of Good Plumbers to do something I am quite capable of doing myself, but the GOV says no.and I cannot be a***d.When I did a job, I didn,t order a part and wait, I made it.The job stood for nobody.I didn,t have time to take bank holidays off to slag people off. I had a buisinees to run.If you were chocolate, you would eat yourself.A bit too much Ego I daresay
 
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.

Thats very kind of you, do you provide hay and water for the horses as well as tea and biscuits?

There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.

Where might that be then.......the south east by any chance?

Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Just like on here, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. HNY

Now you've just gone and contradicted yourself, one minute you put a big bar up outside for the numerous cowboys to come and quote for works.....

the next minute you SAY luckily you know a few good ones! which is it to be?

Look pal most customers have not got the basic intelligence to weed out the wheat from the chaf and I would put a bullsh1tter like you squarely their.

Hell you can't even lie correctly without contradicting yourself in the same post. :LOL:
1, Sense of humour helps when dealing with the likes of yourself, obviously , you have none.2 Esholt is where I live. EMERDALE to you.Leeds, and NO, I am not a Yorkshireman.3.I have put 3 of my own boilers in, am a retired ex engineer,time served with 50 years under my belt. not a fitter. I do know plenty of Good Plumbers to do something I am quite capable of doing myself, but the GOV says no.and I cannot be a***d.When I did a job, I didn,t order a part and wait, I made it.The job stood for nobody.I didn,t have time to take bank holidays off to slag people off. I had a buisinees to run.If you were chocolate, you would eat yourself.A bit too much Ego I daresay



Engineer eh! I take it by that statement you are in posession of a relevant engineering degree? If you are not, then like many others! please refrain from calling yourself an engineer.

I also have a business to run, but now and again I like to come on here to ensure the general public are not led up a garden path, by taking advice from unqualified/inexperienced fools.

You made your spare parts! well well done grandad, however, we have moved on somewhat and with modern manufacturing methods it is almost always more efficient in cost and time to replace and throw away. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BEING AN ENGINEER :p

I spent 8 years as an apprentice serving both mechanical and electrical trades, gaining a Beng in engineering along the way. However, I still to this day do not go about calling myself an engineer, tradesman sounds just fine. Then again I do not need to up myself as I walk the walk and talk the talk everyday.

You see! my business does very well covering all electrical, plumbing, heating and renewables works both domestic & commercial, whether it be design, installation or repair.

I am personally as is my business NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered. I am appropriately qualified and experienced in every aspect of the business and hold all the quals and more of my employees. I still go out every week and get stuck in, commission and generally keep an eye on things.

It's called leading from the front, that way those employees know! they can't pull the wool over my eye's...keeps them on there toes see.

I gave the OP good advice and then gave him a ticking off for assuming that all tradesmen were cowboys out to rip people off!

However like most on here and people within the public sector, you couldn't see the woods for the trees.

The OP will inevitably fall foul, I know this because of how he is posting i.e not listening and can't see good advice when presented to him in comic format.

He will end up with a desperate fitter, or one of these short course w4nkers...why? BECAUSE REAL TRADESMEN/BUSINESSMEN CAN SPOT A NUTTER CUSTOMER AT TEN PACES all the OP will have to do is open his gob.

Regards

An NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered installer/business.
 
Thanks

i think, maybe what I should have been asking (and prob what I meant), was what the boiler was, and whats included in the price. Not having dealt with heating engineers for a long time, all I wanted to know was if this was a resonable price, not as some posters have suggested, a public sector moron wanting something for nothing.......


Is that an attempt at an apology???? It has finally clicked for our hard of thinking..certainly won't be hard working public sector friend, that after 3-4 pages of everyone apart from tomplumb1 who! incidnetly isn't a plumber...has been saying the same thing;

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO KNOW THE MATERIAL COSTS, JUST WHAT YOU WILL BE GETTING FOR THE PRICE.

Shouldnt be too hard I would have thought, to run 22mm pipe, as its 22mm behind the cooker, and the boiler is opposite this, it seems the orig installer reduced the gas feed to 15mm as thats what this boiler takes, and its less than 2m from the appliance

Another customer who knows it will be straight forward, why don't you just do it yourself then? Just like the customers who say it's just a bathroom suite out and the new one straight in If only they knew, but that the point they don't.

Look moron, select three companies from within a 15 mile radius, ensure they are Gas Safe Registere, have a landline number and company address.

Tell them to list the make and model of boiler you can choose, tell them to itemise what they are including in the price.

Chr1st!! I could've built a boiler and had fitted by now :rolleyes:

God help the installer that you choose, for if he had seen this post....he run a mile from you.

Listen idiot, dont post on this topic again. i dont take kindly to insults like this, and I wouldnt dream of apologising to a numpty like you. Just give it a rest eh....

No! I believe it is YOU who is the idiot. You have been advised and told umpteen times and it still will not go in.

My god! no wonder our public sector is in such a way. You would last 1 week in the private sector before being given the boot..why!

YOU DON'T LISTEN...simples.

You will pull a duff fitter I know it, because any sane fitter will run a mile the minute open that mouth of yours :mrgreen:

You'll still be on here this December asking for advice and that boiler still won't be changed :)
 
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.

Thats very kind of you, do you provide hay and water for the horses as well as tea and biscuits?

There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.

Where might that be then.......the south east by any chance?

Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Just like on here, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. HNY

Now you've just gone and contradicted yourself, one minute you put a big bar up outside for the numerous cowboys to come and quote for works.....

the next minute you SAY luckily you know a few good ones! which is it to be?

Look pal most customers have not got the basic intelligence to weed out the wheat from the chaf and I would put a bullsh1tter like you squarely their.

Hell you can't even lie correctly without contradicting yourself in the same post. :LOL:
1, Sense of humour helps when dealing with the likes of yourself, obviously , you have none.2 Esholt is where I live. EMERDALE to you.Leeds, and NO, I am not a Yorkshireman.3.I have put 3 of my own boilers in, am a retired ex engineer,time served with 50 years under my belt. not a fitter. I do know plenty of Good Plumbers to do something I am quite capable of doing myself, but the GOV says no.and I cannot be a***d.When I did a job, I didn,t order a part and wait, I made it.The job stood for nobody.I didn,t have time to take bank holidays off to slag people off. I had a buisinees to run.If you were chocolate, you would eat yourself.A bit too much Ego I daresay



Engineer eh! I take it by that statement you are in posession of a relevant engineering degree? If you are not, then like many others! please refrain from calling yourself an engineer.

I also have a business to run, but now and again I like to come on here to ensure the general public are not led up a garden path, by taking advice from unqualified/inexperienced fools.

You made your spare parts! well well done grandad, however, we have moved on somewhat and with modern manufacturing methods it is almost always more efficient in cost and time to replace and throw away. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BEING AN ENGINEER :p

I spent 8 years as an apprentice serving both mechanical and electrical trades, gaining a Beng in engineering along the way. However, I still to this day do not go about calling myself an engineer, tradesman sounds just fine. Then again I do not need to up myself as I walk the walk and talk the talk everyday.

You see! my business does very well covering all electrical, plumbing, heating and renewables works both domestic & commercial, whether it be design, installation or repair.

I am personally as is my business NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered. I am appropriately qualified and experienced in every aspect of the business and hold all the quals and more of my employees. I still go out every week and get stuck in, commission and generally keep an eye on things.

It's called leading from the front, that way those employees know! they can't pull the wool over my eye's...keeps them on there toes see.

I gave the OP good advice and then gave him a ticking off for assuming that all tradesmen were cowboys out to rip people off!

However like most on here and people within the public sector, you couldn't see the woods for the trees.

The OP will inevitably fall foul, I know this because of how he is posting i.e not listening and can't see good advice when presented to him in comic format.

He will end up with a desperate fitter, or one of these short course w4nkers...why? BECAUSE REAL TRADESMEN/BUSINESSMEN CAN SPOT A NUTTER CUSTOMER AT TEN PACES all the OP will have to do is open his gob.

Regards

An NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered installer/business.
Yes, I have the relevent qualifications, and engineering degree.Have taught engineering at colleges.Have trained apprentices.But I doubt I could have done such a good job with an attitude like yours. Times have moved on, but not for the better I,m afraid.This countries downfall is it relies too much on service industry, and not enough manufacturing.Great Grandad I may be, but the basics of a good engineer never changes.Too many people call themselves engineers today, when they are no more than quick fit fitters.I don,t doubt your buisiness accumen, or qualifications.However, your ATTITUDE leaves a lot to be desired.Self praise is no reccomendation.It costs nothing to be civil.If OP chooses to ignore your advice, that,s his option, others have given same advice as you, but rather more politely.My trade still requires the skill to design and make parts, be it on a lathe etc.These skills will never change,hopefully.Mass production is ok for certain things, wouldn,t do if we were all the same.I think the OP will get what he wants, his requirements are simple enough,it doesn,t pay to under estimate people.

Cheers.Happy New Year.
 
Hi chesketh, I , like you ,will be looking for quotes for a boiler change.first thing I do when getting any quote from TRADESEN is put up a long bar outside the house , so cowboys can tie their horses up to.

Thats very kind of you, do you provide hay and water for the horses as well as tea and biscuits?

There,s lots around, and where I live they 10 a penny.

Where might that be then.......the south east by any chance?

Luckily I know some good ones, word of mouth.That,s my rule of thumb.Always. There,s good and bad in all trades.Buyer beware. Just like on here, you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. HNY

Now you've just gone and contradicted yourself, one minute you put a big bar up outside for the numerous cowboys to come and quote for works.....

the next minute you SAY luckily you know a few good ones! which is it to be?

Look pal most customers have not got the basic intelligence to weed out the wheat from the chaf and I would put a bullsh1tter like you squarely their.

Hell you can't even lie correctly without contradicting yourself in the same post. :LOL:
1, Sense of humour helps when dealing with the likes of yourself, obviously , you have none.2 Esholt is where I live. EMERDALE to you.Leeds, and NO, I am not a Yorkshireman.3.I have put 3 of my own boilers in, am a retired ex engineer,time served with 50 years under my belt. not a fitter. I do know plenty of Good Plumbers to do something I am quite capable of doing myself, but the GOV says no.and I cannot be a***d.When I did a job, I didn,t order a part and wait, I made it.The job stood for nobody.I didn,t have time to take bank holidays off to slag people off. I had a buisinees to run.If you were chocolate, you would eat yourself.A bit too much Ego I daresay



Engineer eh! I take it by that statement you are in posession of a relevant engineering degree? If you are not, then like many others! please refrain from calling yourself an engineer.

I also have a business to run, but now and again I like to come on here to ensure the general public are not led up a garden path, by taking advice from unqualified/inexperienced fools.

You made your spare parts! well well done grandad, however, we have moved on somewhat and with modern manufacturing methods it is almost always more efficient in cost and time to replace and throw away. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS BEING AN ENGINEER :p

I spent 8 years as an apprentice serving both mechanical and electrical trades, gaining a Beng in engineering along the way. However, I still to this day do not go about calling myself an engineer, tradesman sounds just fine. Then again I do not need to up myself as I walk the walk and talk the talk everyday.

You see! my business does very well covering all electrical, plumbing, heating and renewables works both domestic & commercial, whether it be design, installation or repair.

I am personally as is my business NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered. I am appropriately qualified and experienced in every aspect of the business and hold all the quals and more of my employees. I still go out every week and get stuck in, commission and generally keep an eye on things.

It's called leading from the front, that way those employees know! they can't pull the wool over my eye's...keeps them on there toes see.

I gave the OP good advice and then gave him a ticking off for assuming that all tradesmen were cowboys out to rip people off!

However like most on here and people within the public sector, you couldn't see the woods for the trees.

The OP will inevitably fall foul, I know this because of how he is posting i.e not listening and can't see good advice when presented to him in comic format.

He will end up with a desperate fitter, or one of these short course w4nkers...why? BECAUSE REAL TRADESMEN/BUSINESSMEN CAN SPOT A NUTTER CUSTOMER AT TEN PACES all the OP will have to do is open his gob.

Regards

An NICEIC, Gas Safe, OFTEC and MCS Registered installer/business.
Yes, I have the relevent qualifications, and engineering degree.Have taught engineering at colleges.Have trained apprentices.Times have moved on, but not for the better I,m afraid.This countries downfall is it relies too much on service industry, and not enough manufacturing.Great Grandad I may be, but the basics of a good engineer never changes.Too many people call themselves engineers today, when they are no more than quick fit fitters.I don,t doubt your buisiness accumen, or qualifications.However, your ATTITUDE leaves a lot to be desired.Self praise is no reccomendation.It costs nothing to be civil.If OP chooses to ignore your advice, that,s his option, others have given same advice as you, but rather more politely.My trade still requires the skill to design and make parts, be it on a lathe etc.These skills will never change,hopefully.Mass production is ok for certain things, wouldn,t do if we were all the same.I think the OP will get what he wants, his requirements are simple enough,it doesn,t pay to under estimate people.

Cheers.Happy New Year.

Well joesoap1,

from one appropriately qualified, timeserved engineer to another...you will appreicate that nowadays nobody seems to be trained properly anymore.

With all these fast track operatives thinking you can learn a life skill in 6wks to 12Mnths, little wonder true professionals are getting sick to the back teeth of it.

Couple this with the fact that a lot of customers believe, because a chap gets dirty/wears a boilersuit for a living they are somewhat lacking in the all old grey matter and are just out to rip people off. What makes me laugh though, these are exactly the same people who are buying into these short courses believing that all trdesmen earn upwards of 100K. :rolleyes:

All in all, the OP DID receive the correct information and good advice but chose not to take it. His manner was always that he didn't trust the chaps that came through his door and wanted it itemised down to the last pence for each screw used.

Albiet, with time he changed his tune somewhat! after numerous posters told him he was wrong and that he had no right to know the material costs.

He offered no apology, therefore, I will not extend any curtosy to him, in fact they are the people who infuriate me.

Regards and no offence to yourself.
 

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