Replacing old downlights

[Jmsmcln]

Just moved in to a house where a previous occupier has gone a bit mad with spotlights. There's lots of them in every room. Room by room they are all different types colours and sizes and they all look dated, paint splattered and have halogen bulbs.

I'm looking to start with replacing the lights in the master bedroom. These ones are quite small and there's 10 of them altogether, all on one switch and only about 4 of them working. The hole diameter for these is about 45mm.

Is it a DIY job to replace these? Is there anything that will fit in the existing holes or will I need to make it bigger?

Thanks!

 

[ericmark]

The centre picture shows an extra low voltage unit, likely 12 volt, the problem is these can be supplied from a toroidal lighting transformer in which case you can simply plug in a LED bulb, or an electronic transformer which often have a minimum output.

Typical 20 - 60 VA is marked on the electronic transformer so LED lamps will not work.

The rules changed in 1966 and now even where the lamp is class II you need an earth wire taking to the lamp with 230 volt lamps, but the extra low voltage lamp rarely had an earth wire, so it may involve more than simply changing the lamps for 230 volt versions.

In the main the change can be a DIY job, but it is down to finding the transformer and re-wiring as low voltage (230 volt) and also deciding what you want to replace them with, filling in loads of 2" holes is not a quick job, so often even if a large centre lamp is fitted using GU10 fittings to fill the holes is easier than filling them all.

Last house the bathroom had G5.3 lamps as shown, in a MR16 format, but had a toroidal lighting transformer so simply swapped for LED.

 

[Jmsmcln]

Thanks for the reply. I've just been up to the loft and I can see at least 3 transformers before lifting any insulation. I'm not sure if this helps at all but I've attached a pic. Not sure where to go from here.

 

[winston1]

That is a switch mode power supply for halogen lights, will not work with LEDs. Remove it (them) and use 240v LED fittings.

 

[Jmsmcln]

That is a switch mode power supply for halogen lights, will not work with LEDs. Remove it (them) and use 240v LED fittings.

Thanks very much. There's 3 rooms with spotlights on this floor so does that explain the 3 transformers?

Aside from picking new LED fittings and making the holes bigger to suit how would I go about installing? Can I do 10 lights from 1 single switch and is the insulation on top of them going to cause issues?

Thanks

 

[flameport]

Those mini downlights were a thing a number of years ago, and then people found the lamps were expensive and difficult to find.
Forget items of that size - make the holes larger for standard size downlights, usually 70-80mm. Forget 12V LEDs as well, entirely pointless.

One switch can do as many lights as you would want in a single room.
Some lights can have insulation placed over them, others cannot. Check the instructions.

 

[Jmsmcln]

Those mini downlights were a thing a number of years ago, and then people found the lamps were expensive and difficult to find.
Forget items of that size - make the holes larger for standard size downlights, usually 70-80mm. Forget 12V LEDs as well, entirely pointless.

One switch can do as many lights as you would want in a single room.
Some lights can have insulation placed over them, others cannot. Check the instructions.

Thanks. So in terms of wiring can I take the 240v feed from the transformer into a junction box, feed the first light and daisy chain the rest or is there a better way? What about the fact there's no earth?

Cheers!

 

[flameport]

There should be an earth connection where the other end of the white transformer flex is connected. Probably a junction box or similar already there.
Then it's a new cable from that to the first light, and then to the second one and so on.

If there really is no earth at all, then the wiring is over 55 years old and will need to be replaced.

 

[Jmsmcln]

There should be an earth connection where the other end of the white transformer flex is connected. Probably a junction box or similar already there.
Then it's a new cable from that to the first light, and then to the second one and so on.

If there really is no earth at all, then the wiring is over 55 years old and will need to be replaced.

Ok great, I'll have a proper look tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[FrodoOne]

I'm looking to start with replacing the lights in the master bedroom. These ones are quite small and there's 10 of them altogether, all on one switch and only about 4 of them working.

It is quite amazing to think that, about twenty five years ago, it became the fashion to install a large number of high energy non-lights in (even) a bedroom !
(BAS - where are you?)

If all those ten 50 W halogen lights were working, that would be 500 watts of lighting (!) - and 20 to 30 watts of suitable wide angle LED lighting now would (probably) produce more lumens!

Have you considered removing the existing lights, filling in some of the holes, re-plastering and repainting the ceiling as appropriate and putting more appropriate wide-angle (or down light) LEDs (switched appropriately and, possibly, dimmable) where you actually want them?

 

[winston1]

Thanks very much. There's 3 rooms with spotlights on this floor so does that explain the 3 transformers?

Switch mode halogen supplies, not transformers. There may be one for each room but most likely one per light. You need to search for others.

 

[FrodoOne]

Yes.
Switch Mode Power Supplies (SMPS), which are transforming (changing) 240 V (50 Hz) into 12 V - at who knows how many Hertz.

(No halogen [gas] is supplied by any such devices!)

 

[bernardgreen]

into 12 V - at who know how many Hertz.

and with a wave form that could be anything. 12 V DC (eff) means a supply that has the same effect as smooth 12 V when fed to an incandescent lamp.

Worst 12 V DC supply unit I have come across had a waveform with 30 V peaks at several kHz but it averaged out to be 12 V

Incandescent lamps would be OK with the 30 V peaks but the LED elements in an LED lamp with resistors as current control would be over currented and their life would be shortened.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Ha. I've just replaced 8 of those MR16 jobbies (due to them not being fire rated) with yep standard GU10 240v LED canned ones. Fortunately when i installed the originals I used T & E so no probs with earthing. Only dull bit of the job was enlarging the holes- even with a template it was hard work stopping the holesaw jumping about.
Think one reason I went with MR16 originally was the low power (20w each) instead of the then standard 50w

 

[Jmsmcln]

It is quite amazing to think that, about twenty five years ago, it became the fashion to install a large number of high energy non-lights in (even) a bedroom !
(BAS - where are you?)

If all those ten 50 W halogen lights were working, that would be 500 watts of lighting (!) - and 20 to 30 watts of suitable wide angle LED lighting now would (probably) produce more lumens!

Have you considered removing the existing lights, filling in some of the holes, re-plastering and repainting the ceiling as appropriate and putting more appropriate wide-angle (or down light) LEDs (switched appropriately and, possibly, dimmable) where you actually want them?

I have considered that but the ceiling is also covered with painted lining paper and there's an awful lot of other work required in the house which is more of a priority. I'm in Sale, Manchester.

I was naively hoping this was just going to be a case of swapping the fittings out for new and reusing the existing cabling. How wrong I was!

Thanks everyone for your comments.