reusing a disused shower circuit

[ColJack]

you're one of those people who don't like to admit when they may have made an error aren't you?

no there is nothing inherantly dangerous with putting a smaller breaker on an existing circuit, HOWEVER, it then necessitates the need to notify the LABC or to employ the services of a registered electrician to do the work, adding a significant cost for soemthing that is not necesary..
the removal of the circuit from the bathroom is not notifiable, the addition of points to the circuit outside the bathroom is not notifiable, and as long as the connections for the equipment in the bathroom are outside of it ( as can be achieved by passing the flex through a flex outlet plate and connecting straight into the FCU on the oposite side of the wall ), then no notification is needed.

KAI stated that it MUST be changed, when in actuality there is NO such requirement to do so, which is the point that BAS and myself have been trying to get you to admit to..

a 30A 6mm² radial is perfectly acceptible for 2 FCU's..

 

[Goldberg]

you're one of those people who don't like to admit when they may have made an error aren't you?

I don't think so. I distinctly recall making such an admission on a very recent topic.

no there is nothing inherantly dangerous with putting a smaller breaker on an existing circuit, HOWEVER, it then necessitates the need to notify the LABC or to employ the services of a registered electrician to do the work, adding a significant cost for soemthing that is not necesary.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I'm not suggesting that the law should be broken, it's just that I'm not sure that such a change would be notifiable. If it is, then I agree that it would cost some more money.

But let me get this straight - BASandmyself is more concerned about the cost than applying some thought about the risks involved in using an overrated breaker?

the removal of the circuit from the bathroom is not notifiable, the addition of points to the circuit outside the bathroom is not notifiable, and as long as the connections for the equipment in the bathroom are outside of it ( as can be achieved by passing the flex through a flex outlet plate and connecting straight into the FCU on the oposite side of the wall ), then no notification is needed.

OK.

KAI stated that it MUST be changed, when in actuality there is NO such requirement to do so, which is the point that BAS and myself have been trying to get you to admit to.

a 30A 6mm² radial is perfectly acceptible for 2 FCU's..

Can you think of any risk that arises when using a 30A breaker/cartridge on jpbunce's radial final, that either doesn't arise, or is to any extent mitigated, when using a 10A CPD?

 

[ColJack]

changing the CPD on a circuit is notifiable.

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected

and again for the umpteenth time you ask the question that I have aready answered..
no, nothing wrong with changing a breaker / fuse for a smaller one, but it is not a necessity.. there is no "MUST" be changed about it..
"CAN be changed" yes, but not absolutely MUST..

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[RF Lighting]

I agree with coljack. Nothing wrong at all with it.

What about an old 30A cooker supply, which is no longer required. The customer want's a single 13A socket putting on the end of it.

Would you swap the OCPD for a 16A for that circuit too, or leave it as it is?

 

[333rocky333]

Not forgetting the cable is supplying fcu's.
Why feed 1 or 2, 13amp rated fcu's with a 10 amp mcb.
Bad discrimination in my view.

 

[Goldberg]

changing the CPD on a circuit is notifiable.

(c) re-fixing or replacing enclosures of existing installation components, where the circuit protective measures are unaffected

I don't claim to be an expert on exemption from notification, but isn't this relevant?

2. Work which—
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of—
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.

If I've got that wrong, then you can just tell me.

and again for the umpteenth time you ask the question that I have aready answered..
no, nothing wrong with changing a breaker / fuse for a smaller one, but it is not a necessity.. there is no "MUST" be changed about it..
"CAN be changed" yes, but not absolutely MUST..

I understand your point, but I don't think it's an answer to any of these questions:

1. Imagine a radial circuit with a design load of 5A - let's make it easy and say the conditions make it acceptable to use a type B 6A MCB and 1.0mm² cable.

If I then chose to use 6mm² cable, for my own secret personal private secret private reason, would you then change the CPD to a 40A MCB?

If not, then why not?

2. Why do you believe that a 40A CPD is ok for my proposed radial with a 5A loading?

3. Can you think of any risk that arises when using a 30A breaker/cartridge on jpbunce's radial final, that either doesn't arise, or is to any extent mitigated, when using a 10A CPD?

 

[Goldberg]

Not forgetting the cable is supplying fcu's.
Why feed 1 or 2, 13amp rated fcu's with a 10 amp mcb.

Did you think that the design load was 26A?

Do you think that it's perfectly fine for 30A to be drawn when the FCUs loads are fused down to a total of 8A? Where are the other 22A being safely used?

Bad discrimination in my view.

What would be good discrimination in that example?

 

[Goldberg]

I agree with coljack. Nothing wrong at all with it.

No risk at all then?

What about an old 30A cooker supply, which is no longer required. The customer want's a single 13A socket putting on the end of it.

Would you swap the OCPD for a 16A for that circuit too, or leave it as it is?

Would you be happy for the other 17A to go somewhere else?

 

[ricicle]

Would you be happy for the other 17A to go somewhere else?

Where ?

 

[Goldberg]

Would you be happy for the other 17A to go somewhere else?

Where ?

Is it important where it goes?

 

[ColJack]

Do you think that it's perfectly fine for 30A to be drawn when the FCUs loads are fused down to a total of 8A? Where are the other 22A being safely used?

oh my good god.. you have no idea how electricity works according to that quote..

there would not BE 30A drawn.. only 8A..

do you think that there is 32A coursing through a ring final even with nothing plugged in?

 

[333rocky333]

Not forgetting the cable is supplying fcu's.
Why feed 1 or 2, 13amp rated fcu's with a 10 amp mcb.

Did you think that the design load was 26A?

The 30 amp is already in place, he may in the future want to increase the heater size or fit a larger towel rail, he will then have the facility to increase up to 3 kw each if so desired.

Do you think that it's perfectly fine for 30A to be drawn when the FCUs loads are fused down to a total of 8A? Where are the other 22A being safely used?

The fuses in the FCU will limit the fault current the same as a plugfuse on a 30 amp ring.

What would be good discrimination in that example?

Where in the event of a fault, only the faulty appliance fuses and not tripping the circuit causing loss of other appliances also.

 

[ColJack]

I don't claim to be an expert on exemption from notification, but isn't this relevant?

2. Work which—
(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,
(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and
(c) consists of—
(i) adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit; or
(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.

If I've got that wrong, then you can just tell me.

not relavent at all to the notification of changing a circuit protective device.. and as already said.. the connection of fused spurs to an existing radial circuit which is not in a kitchen or special location ( of which a bathroom is one ), is not notifiable.. as shown above.

2. Why do you believe that a 40A CPD is ok for my proposed radial with a 5A loading?

because the cable is sized correctly for a 40A CPD and the load is fused down at the connection point with an FCU..

3. Can you think of any risk that arises when using a 30A breaker/cartridge on jpbunce's radial final, that either doesn't arise, or is to any extent mitigated, when using a 10A CPD?

no I can't ( as I've already said at least twice in answer to this question you KEEP asking ), but likewise I see no risk arrising from leaving the 30A in place and connecting the equipment with FCU's as is the OP's intention..

 

[Goldberg]

Do you think that it's perfectly fine for 30A to be drawn when the FCUs loads are fused down to a total of 8A? Where are the other 22A being safely used?

oh my good god.. you have no idea how electricity works according to that quote.

That's one of two possibilities - the other is that you misunderstood what I wrote.

there would not BE 30A drawn.. only 8A.

How would you prevent 30A from being drawn?

do you think that there is 32A coursing through a ring final even with nothing plugged in?

No.