Should gas fire allow unlit gas through when it’s in between heat settings ?

[Wyleecoyote]

My elderly Father, when using the gas fire, has a habit of turning the gas fire knob in between its heat setting;

When the Pilot light is lit, he’ll turn the knob just PAST the Pilot light position setting but just BEFORE heat setting ONE and unlit gas will fill the room.

Also, when the gas is lit and the Radiants glowing, with the knob in between heat setting One & Two, Two & Three or Three & Four, the smell of unlit Gas fills the room.

It’s as if a section of the burner is allowing Gas through but somehow, it’s not igniting.

I’m aware it’s my Father who’s using the gas fire incorrectly but the old fire of an identical make and model, which was in use for 10 years or more; we never encounter this issue.

The current fire is new and was only replaced during Nov 2019.

Although, my Father is using the Fire incorrectly, I’m wondering whether it’s actually a fault with the fire ?

At 95, my Father doesn’t have the sense of smell he once did and he’ll happily sit in the Gas filled living room and be unaware of the smell.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'm not a Gas engineer, but I'd say straight away that fire is defective and unsafe to be used.

Get onto the Manufacturers immediately, they should have either one of their own people or an Approved Service agent who can look at it. If that doesn't bear fruit, I'd be speaking to the HSE and Gas Safe. Meanwhile it really needs disconnecting to make it safe.

 

[Madrab]

1st .... don't use the fire at all, ever, in the slightest, even if your dad's cold !!!
2nd ..... get the engineer who installed it back in like yesterday and point out what's happening, if it is doing what you suggest and leaking unused gas into the room then he'll cap the supply and mark the fire up as ID
3rd .... get on to the manufacturer ASAP and get them to have an engineer visit.

4th ... if there's any issue encountered at step 2 or 3 then tell them you'll report it to GS and/or HSE as @Hugh Jaleak suggests unless it is sorted.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Thanks for very prompt replies

Contacting manufacturers easier said than done but will give it another go.

It’s Robinson Willey Fire, who's been taken over by Glen Dimplex

 

[ianmcd]

http://www.robinsonwilley.co.uk/index.htm

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Both Robinson Willey, Valor and Glen Dimplex are trusted names, I doubt GD will like any bad publicity, so would expect them to be very forthcoming in helping get this sorted.

Might be a one off, or might be a number of these fires that are faulty, it needs bringing to their attention, and each and every one of any possibly affected appliances checking.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Surprisingly I managed to get through; however, they were adamant that what I’m describing couldn't occur due to the fires built in safety feature & suggested I call Transco.

I explained how my Father is using the fire and said although he’s operating the fire incorrectly, should the overwhelming odour of gas be able to occur.

They suggested the fire probably isn’t suitable for my Father and I should look for a more appropriate fire or teach my Father how to use the fire correctly, although my Father has mild vascular dementia.

Maybe they’re right but I still believe there shouldn't be the potential for gas to enter the room when the fires lit and in use or is it to be expected because my Father is turning the control knob in between heat settings ?

However, after agreeing to pay £99 if it’s found there isn’t a fault, they’ve agreed to come out and inspect the fire; I will be contacted within the next 2 to 5 days to arrange the inspection.

 

[Keithmac]

Isn't that what the Thermocouple is for?.

I can't see any gas appliance that is not lit passing gas regardless of what setting it's on, what if a child knocled it etc.

Our gas oven/ burners will not pass gas unless there is a flame, same as old boiler and various gas fires.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

I don’t know either.

While the pilot light is lit, and also the gas burner; when the control knob is in between any heat setting, un-lit gas is being emitted.

The Thermocouple only cuts off the gas when the pilot light is extinguished.

There’s no smell of gas when the fire is off.

This is my concern; although my Father is operating the fire incorrectly, should the fire be able to emit unlit gas while in use ?

It’s so easy to accidentally turn the control knob to “in between heat settings” and not realise until the smell of gas is detected.

 

[Madrab]

I am sorry about your fathers condition but I have to be honest, I would never recommend any person that may have a diminished responsibility to be able to have access to an open flamed gas fire. In the wrong circumstances they can be inherently dangerous and it is honestly an accident waiting to happen. If it was me I would have it disconnected, at least temporarily.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Madrab.... I agree but my Fathers home is privately rented and the landlord just had fitted an identical fire to what was fitted for over 10 years (probably due to cost) and we’ve never experienced the current issue with the old fire.

At present, it’s all too easy to turn the control knob in between heat settings and when doing so, with the gas fire lit, the smell of gas occurs.

It’s whether this should be occurring or not.

Currently, the fire has been temporarily disabled.

 

[Madrab]

There may be a fault with the valve and it's passing by the spindle at mid setting but without being there it's difficult to tell.

Ultimately I would have a word with the landlord, I am sure they will happily disable/disconnect the fire when you mention that they are completely and totally responsible if anything happens to your father as a consequence of that fire, regardless of whether your father misuses the fire or not or if the fire is at fault.

They can be very dangerous items.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Involving the landlord is a contentious issue; it’s a relative. legally, it’s the landlords responsibility but the landlord takes advantage of the situation and that my Father is the Tenant and not me.

Although my Father is positioning the control knob in between heat settings, I don’t believe it should leak gas, so hopefully, the manufacturers inspection should confirm this; otherwise I’m £99 down.

 

[endecotp]

Isn't that what the Thermocouple is for?.

I can't see any gas appliance that is not lit passing gas regardless of what setting it's on, what if a child knocled it etc.

Our gas oven/ burners will not pass gas unless there is a flame, same as old boiler and various gas fires.

Not all gas appliances work like that, by any means. My gas hob has no thermocouple or similar, so you can turn on the knob and gas comes out; if you don’t press the ignition button it continues until the house explodes. The last gas fire I knew was the same.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Not all gas appliances work like that, by any means. My gas hob has no thermocouple or similar, so you can turn on the knob and gas comes out; if you don’t press the ignition button it continues until the house explodes. The last gas fire I knew was the same.

It’s my belief, that within the Uk; it’s legislation, from a specific date, that requires all new gas appliances to incorporate a Thermocouple or at least a safety device which cuts off the gas from the burner, if the flames has been extinguished.
My Fathers Gas Fire was only purchased last year and it also has a manufacture date of 2019.
To operate; the control knob has to be held down for 10 seconds once the pilot light has ignited.

The Gas Fire prior; which was used for over 10 years, also had a Thermocouple and the same method of igniting the pilot light.

Any Gas appliance in operation today, which doesn’t incorporate a built in safety device; must of been manufactured before the legislation came into force.

The current issue with my Fathers gas fire; is that while the fire is lit and in use, when the control knob is in between heat settings; un-lit gas is escaping and failing to ignite.

If this un-lit Gas is able to escape for long enough, it may well ignite with an explosion.

Although, my Father is positioning the gas fires control knob in between heat settings; I still believe it shouldn’t allow un-lit gas to escape.