Should gas fire allow unlit gas through when it’s in between heat settings ?

[CBW]

Involving the landlord is a contentious issue; it’s a relative. legally, it’s the landlords responsibility but the landlord takes advantage of the situation and that my Father is the Tenant and not me.

Surely all the more reason to get landlord involved? Yes legally it's the landlords (LL) responsibility and LL has to make sure appliances are safe. Anything that could happen would be on them is how I'd word it. As you say though, hopefully the manufacturer can resolve (hopefully without any costs incurred).

Thermocouple reacts if the flame extinguishes, the pilot lights, So a leak beforehand or even at the thermocouple wouldn't extinguish the flame.

 

[Madrab]

My other concern is that when the fire is in that half on state that gas fills the room, if it's open flued (chimney) then I would expect that to be drawn into the chimney and not fill the room, of course if the chimney is cold there may not be enough initial draw. Is there a CO detector in the room above the fireplace?

If this fire isn't even a year old then I'd be getting the GSR engineer in who fitted it to test it first rather than paying £99 for the manufacturer to visit. If (s)he ID's it (Immediately Dangerous) and identifies it as a manufacturing fault then you get the manufacturer in with the engineer as a backup.

 

[bernardgreen]

What might be happening is that the pilot flame is igniting and heating the thermo-couple and thus the pilot flame is continues to be lit.

Then for some reason the gas in the main burner is not igniting from the pilot flame.

This could happen when the pilot flame is to small to reach the gas coming out of the nearest part of the main burner. This could involve a small transfer jet (or jets ) between the pilot flame and main burner jets.

If the main gas valve is not fully open then the transfer jet(s) may not be getting enough gas to create a flame that propagates to the main burner jets.

Transfer jets ( if used ) ensure the thermo-couple is not over heated by being in the flames of the main combustion area

 

[durhamplumber]

When the Pilot light is lit, he’ll turn the knob just PAST the Pilot light position setting but just BEFORE heat setting ONE and unlit gas will fill the room.

How is that possible with the pilot lit?...The pilot will ignite any gas going to the burner.As said though.. .never mind wondering who is at fault...turn the damn thing off and stop your father using it.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Thanks for all responses this morning.

Yeah, under normal circumstances, I would either call the installer or the landlord but due family contention and the fact I was unhappy with the appearance of the gas fires installation and, as I’m not the one paying; my opinion counted for nothing, so I’m in no rush to call the installer.

Also, I don’t know how long the fire has to been on for the gas smell to occur.

When I arrive I will instantly detect the overwhelming odour of gas or if I happen to be upstairs I will eventually smell gas.

When I look at the fire; it’s lit and burning correctly and my Father has either turned the Fire up, but in between heat settings 3 & 4 or he has turned the fire off but turned the knob between the pilot light & heat setting 1 and just sitting there, oblivious to the smell.

In regard to the chimney, I don’t know whether it’s an open flue; it appears to be a series of hollow breeze blocks.

There’s no CO detector just smoke detectors fitted by the Fire Service.

In regard to the pilot flame; yeah, it remains lit because the fire is either on and in use or my Father turns the control knob to the pilot light position but when doing so, he tends to turn it between the pilot light and position 1 and it’s this “half state” position, which I believe is the cause; but should using it in such a manner allow gas to escape ?

 

[Gasguru]

The landlord must have lost his mind...I persuade 99% of landlords not to have gas fires in their rentals and if they don't agree they're no longer a customer.
I've seen far too many problems and lack of understanding from the public. Surely there are radiators or alternative heating?

The OP mentions radiants so can we assume it is a traditional radiant gas fire?

If you don't turn the gas fully on to allow the gas to cross light from the pilot flame then there's always the possibility to release unburnt gas although this is more so with live/living flame effect type fires ie. with coals.

Since there's no heat in the flue to cause a draw that unburnt gas could be released into the room.

Turn the gas tap fully on to ensure correct burner ignition and then back to setting 1 if necessary.

Have you considered requesting a Gas-Safe inspection?

CO alarms are essential with any fire IMHO.

As I've mentioned I would never entertain a gas fire with a 95 year old (or even tenant).

 

[Wyleecoyote]

How is that possible with the pilot lit?...The pilot will ignite any gas going to the burner.As said though.. .never mind wondering who is at fault...turn the damn thing off and stop your father using it.

I don’t know how it’s possible, that’s why I’m asking such questions on this forum.

Currently the fire has been temporarily disabled to prevent its use.

However, although my Father is operating the fire incorrectly, I still believe it’s maybe a fault, as it’s so easy to turn the control knob in between heat settings.

Prior to the current issue, my Father had an identical make and model of fire in use for over 10 years and we never experienced such an issue.

 

[denso13]

I still believe it’s maybe a fault

Possibly, either way you'll need to get it fixed or permanently disconnected.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

The landlord must have lost his mind...I persuade 99% of landlords not to have gas fires in their rentals and if they don't agree they're no longer a customer.
I've seen far too many problems and lack of understanding from the public. Surely there are radiators or alternative heating?

The OP mentions radiants so can we assume it is a traditional radiant gas fire?

If you don't turn the gas fully on to allow the gas to cross light from the pilot flame then there's always the possibility to release unburnt gas although this is more so with live/living flame effect type fires ie. with coals.

Since there's no heat in the flue to cause a draw that unburnt gas could be released into the room.

Turn the gas tap fully on to ensure correct burner ignition and then back to setting 1 if necessary.

Have you considered requesting a Gas-Safe inspection?

CO alarms are essential with any fire IMHO.

As I've mentioned I would never entertain a gas fire with a 95 year old (or even tenant).

I appreciate your reply and opinion but as I’m not the landlord, it’s out of my hands.

Although my Father has central heating, due to the open plan staircase, the radiator in the living is too small to heat the living room sufficiently, hence the gas fire.

Also, although, my Father is experiencing the current issue, that shouldn't necessarily lead to the demise of the gas fire.

 

[denso13]

that shouldn't necessarily lead to the demise of the gas fire

Unless it is user error and not suitable in the first place.

 

[fixitflav]

It’s my belief, that within the Uk; it’s legislation, from a specific date, that requires all new gas appliances to incorporate a Thermocouple or at least a safety device which cuts off the gas from the burner, if the flames has been extinguished.
My Fathers Gas Fire was only purchased last year and it also has a manufacture date of 2019.
To operate; the control knob has to be held down for 10 seconds once the pilot light has ignited.

The Gas Fire prior; which was used for over 10 years, also had a Thermocouple and the same method of igniting the pilot light.

Any Gas appliance in operation today, which doesn’t incorporate a built in safety device; must of been manufactured before the legislation came into force.

The current issue with my Fathers gas fire; is that while the fire is lit and in use, when the control knob is in between heat settings; un-lit gas is escaping and failing to ignite.

If this un-lit Gas is able to escape for long enough, it may well ignite with an explosion.

Although, my Father is positioning the gas fires control knob in between heat settings; I still believe it shouldn’t allow un-lit gas to escape.

It doesn't sound right. As the gas escapes into the room in this situation it clearly isn't going to the main jets, or it would burn. That seems wrong for a start. Is it coming from the body of the valve? I would try to find out where, using soapy water.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

As the pipes which feed gas into the base of the fire are clearly visible, I’ve applied leak detection foam to them, which revealed nothing.

As the fire is relatively new and as I’m not a gas installer, I’d rather not attempt to investigate the control valve further.

However, the smell of gas only occurs when the fire is in use, with the pilot light lit, although it doesn’t occur on each and every occasion.

Whether it’s a result of how my Father is using the fire or not; should it be able to occur at all ?

It’s so easy to accidentally position the control knob between heat settings and, although it’s maybe user error, should it be able to occur ?

 

[denso13]

should it be able to occur

It has been said repeatedly in the thread that no, it probably shouldn't. Hard to tell without a proper inspection.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

Unless it is user error and not suitable in the first place.

I disagree, in all my years of operating Gas fires and even explaining how to operate a gas fire to children, as well as teenage children being left to use a gas fire with a rotary control by theirselves; I’ve never come home to a house which smells of gas.

 

[Wyleecoyote]

It has been said repeatedly in the thread that no, it probably shouldn't. Hard to tell without a proper inspection.

Ok thanks; I’m sorry I keep reiterating but I’m kind of answering individual post rather then responding to the thread; I’ll remember not to mention it again and I’ll just await the results of the manufactures inspection.