Shower for old neighbour.

[barcelona]

Hi, I have an elederly neighbour who asked me if I could have a look at his electric shower, as it has stopped working, and he has trouble geting in and out of the bath.
Since this guy is a good neighbour and a nice guy I said I would. I went round the other day and the first thing I checked was the neon light on the pullcord switch, working ok.
No chance his pipe is frozen as his house is very warm. So I Isolate at the fuse box, Which is very old plug in type and find he has a 30amp fuse protecting the shower cable.
Then remove the shower casing and check for power, all ok. I then check for power at the terminals inside the shower after replacing the fuse, all ok, So the shower is faulty.
So we go to b&Q and get a new shower unit and a 45 amp plug in mcb, I also tell him it should have an rcd fitted. Couldn't get one at the shed, so Just did what I could at the time.
When I took the shower unit off the wall i found live and neutral had been rubbing togethr to the point they had both worn right through. and the back of the unit was burnt.
Then When I looked more closely at the shower switch I find it has a hole burnt right through it.
Now I am capable of sorting this mess out for the guy, even replacing the cable as I suspect is probably damaged, and doing a good job. He would pay for the materials and I wouldn't charge him for my time,
as I said he is a good neighbour and doesn't have much money. Should I do this job ? Or should I tell him he needs to get an electrician in, bearing in mind he probably won't do as he wont be able to afford it.
Sorry for the long post guys, but It's a bit of a moral dilemma for me.

 

[1john]

You cant just increase the rating of the breaker from 30A to 45A, what size was the cable and how is it routed??

 

[Wangerman]

If you are happy to do it just do it. certainly wouldn't hurt to replace the cable with 10mm especially as you have uprated the breaker. For peace of mind if you wish he could save up for a sparks to check it out in the new year.

I think this is the lesser of two evils if someones well-being is at state

 

[barcelona]

You cant just increase the rating of the breaker from 30A to 45A, what size was the cable and how is it routed??

Cheers for the reply.
Cable is 10mm and is routed from the cellar almost straight up behind plaster work into the loft, to a ceiling mounted shower switch. Then from the switch down inside a lath and plaster stud wall to the shower unit.

 

[Taylortwocities]

It sounds like it is an old-type fuseboard with plug-in MCBs that replaced the old fuses?

Please stop. You cannot just go and upgrade the MCB from 30 to 45amp. Are you aware that the old Wylex boards were only type approved at a maximum of 30amp per fuseway.

Also, how do you know it is 10mm conductor. How did you measure it?

 

[barcelona]

It sounds like it is an old-type fuseboard with plug-in MCBs that replaced the old fuses?

Please stop. You cannot just go and upgrade the MCB from 30 to 45amp. Are you aware that the old Wylex boards were only type approved at a maximum of 30amp per fuseway.

I have stopped. as soon as I saw burnt wires.

Also, how do you know it is 10mm conductor. How did you measure it?

The cable easures 17.1 wide so I assume it is ok.

 

[barcelona]

It sounds like it is an old-type fuseboard with plug-in MCBs that replaced the old fuses?

Please stop. You cannot just go and upgrade the MCB from 30 to 45amp. Are you aware that the old Wylex boards were only type approved at a maximum of 30amp per fuseway.

I have stopped. as soon as I saw burnt wires.

Also, how do you know it is 10mm conductor. How did you measure it?

The cable easures 17.1 wide so I assume it is ok.

I didn't know this no. so He needs a new consumer unit.

 

[sparkydude]

How does the saying go never assume as it makes an ASS out of U and ME

17.1mm across is NO WAY a 10mm cable, thats more likeley a 6mm .

a 10mm is more like 25mm across the flat.

He needs a new fusebox really, or to comply with current regs on the shower, just install a small 1 way RCD protected fusebox serving the shower only , and if necessary the cable should be replaced for a 10mm but depends upon current rating of new shower.
Prob best to get a sparks to do some if not all of it, but he may say you can do some of the work in preperation for his arrival .

Nick

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

Steady on TTC. You have no idea of the age of this (supposed) Wylex unit. It would have to be extremely ancient for it not to accept a 40A cartridge fuse - or 40/45A MCB.

After all, it was Wylex that made these plug-in CBs for their own fuse boxes. The general advice at the time was that the fuse box shouldn't be fitted with more than one device in excess of 30A because the m/s was only 60A. To a degree, it depends on the type and loading of the other installed circuits.

I'm quite sure that together we can help barca to be a kind neighbour, and to carry out this work to the minimum standard where he leaves it no worse than it was.


Good luck to him.


Lucia.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

17.1mm across is NO WAY a 10mm cable, thats more likeley a 6mm .

a 10mm is more like 25mm across the flat.

Oh dear! Looks like the Wiki needs updating then...

 

[barcelona]

Steady on TTC. You have no idea of the age of this (supposed) Wylex unit. It would have to be extremely ancient for it not to accept a 40A cartridge fuse - or 40/45A MCB.

After all, it was Wylex that made these plug-in CBs for their own fuse boxes. The general advice at the time was that the fuse box shouldn't be fitted with more than one device in excess of 30A because the m/s was only 60A. To a degree, it depends on the type and loading of the other installed circuits.

I'm quite sure that together we can help barca to be a kind neighbour, and to carry out this work to the minimum standard where he leaves it no worse than it was.


Good luck to him.

Thanks, as it is there are only 5 ways in this fuse box. Upstairs and downstairs lighting and upstairs and downstairs sockets. And the shower.


Lucia.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

Sparkydude seems to applying pure guesswork here.

Even a 16mm T&E cable rarely exceeds 21 mm across its major axis. I'd like to see a T&E cable with a dimension of 25mm!


Lucia.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

In case noone got the point of my post see http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA10G.html and note the dimensions.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

OK barca, what is the kW rating of the new shower (and what was the previous size)?

What's the rating of the main switch to this fuse box?


The damage to that pull cord switch was most likely due to a loose connection, causing 'sparking and arcing' thereby generating enough heat to melt the conductors and plastic enclosure. So, you'll check that your new connections are safe 'n sound, won't you.

For goodness sake get on with the job before that old boy starts to get a bit smelly!


Lucia.

 

[Adam_151]

As far as I know lucia, wylex standard boards with a 60A isolator were never designed to take a device in excess of 30A, and they were designed so that a 40A fuse base would not sit in properky due to a lug (unless it was removed)

100A rated boards are fine with higher rated devices, but ther average domestic had a 6way 60A board. though sometimes there would be a single separate fuseway to the right of the isolator for bigger loads

Of course I suppose it could be mistaken hearsay, but I'd definatly check with wylex technical before fitting a 45A breaker