Smart meters have never connected

[JohnW2]

How many other situations are there where a company can say "you owe us £x - we have no proof of that, we're just guessing, but you have to pay"?

Not a lot of similar situations, but there are some, such as taxes (particularly VAT, and to some extent self-employed Income Tax).

However, I imagine that a court would probably sympathise with the situation, since the individuals (or companies) can be said to have "brought it on themselves". Before an estimated bill' was issued, they would have been told that "if you provide meter readings (or VAT/Tax Returns/whatever),then we will bill you for exactly what you owe us, but if you don't provide that information we will have no choice but to issue an estimated bill".

The estimated bills are, of course, not 'blind guesses' but are usually true estimates based on historical data, and will rarely be grossly incorrect.

 

[Murdochcat]

How many other situations are there where a company can say "you owe us £x - we have no proof of that, we're just guessing, but you have to pay"?

Had this exact situation between Eon next and the MIL. The supplier insisted on SM’s then couldn’t read them so were billing seemingly random amounts based on historic data.

Took over 6 months to get it sorted.

If a company insist on a SM and can’t read it remotely, they should at the very least send a meter monkey round twice a year to take readings

 

[JohnW2]

Had this exact situation between Eon next and the MIL. The supplier insisted on SM’s then couldn’t read them so were billing seemingly random amounts based on historic data.

"Random amounts" and "based on historic data" seem to be rather different concepts.

As I said, in the vast majority of cases, estimates based on historic data are unlikley to be far off the mark - and, as I also said, if bills are being estimated because the consumer refuses to provide meter readings, then the simplest solution is very obvious.

 

[Murdochcat]

- and, as I also said, if bills are being estimated because the consumer refuses to provide meter readings, then the simplest solution is very obvious.

It’s not a case of refusing to provide readings it’s more the case of the elderly customer not knowing which buttons to push to get a reading

The MIL could easily read her old meters

 

[JohnW2]

It’s not a case of refusing to provide readings ...

That's what we (the rest of us) were discussing

... it’s more the case of the elderly customer not knowing which buttons to push to get a reading ... The MIL could easily read her old meters

That is, indeed, a problem, but it's not what we've been discussing, and nor is it an issue specific to 'smart' meters. It's an issue with most (maybe all?) current/recent (i.e. 'electronic') meters. To get readings from my 'dumb' (but 'electronic) meter, I (who am pretty 'elderly' ) not only have to use a stepladder, but also definitely have to 'push buttons'.

 

[Murdochcat]

That's what we (the rest of us) were discussing

Well that’s not how your posts come over

Maybe stop ruining threads and start new ones to suit your angle with your position clearly stated

You are like my aged ex civil servant BIL - wearing blinkers all the time

 

[JohnW2]

Well that’s not how your posts come over

Maybe you read them as you want them to read.

Maybe stop ruining threads and start new ones to suit your angle with your position clearly stated

This thread has evolved naturally, still very much 'on-topic', the recent bits (which you say 'suit my angle', whatever you think that may be) relating to the situation in which, following fitting of his 'smart' meter (which can't communicate),the OP refused to provide meter readings (which is what I threatened my supplier with) - particularly since, in his initial post, the OP said that he "had to" continue providing monthly readings (duee to failure of the 'smart' meter technology).

 

[Murdochcat]

Maybe you read them as you want them to read.

This thread has evolved naturally, still very much 'on-topic', the recent bits (which you say 'suit my angle', whatever you think that may be) relating to the situation in which, following fitting of his 'smart' meter (which can't communicate),the OP refused to provide meter readings (which is what I threatened my supplier with) - particularly since, in his initial post, the OP said that he "had to" continue providing monthly readings (duee to failure of the 'smart' meter technology).

This thread has been ruined, not evolved by your usual unnecessary comments after comments

 

[JohnW2]

This thread has been ruined, not evolved by your usual unnecessary comments after comments

I disagree.

The OP's original post suggested that he "had to" continue providing monthly meter readings because his 'smart' meter could not communicate. I told him that he could refuse to provide the readings (which is what I have threatened my supplier with). You may regard that comment as 'unnecessary' but it seems totally appropriate and valid to me

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The OP's original post suggested that he "had to" continue providing monthly meter readings because his 'smart' meter could not communicate. I told him that he could refuse to provide the readings (which is what I have threatened my supplier with). You may regard that comment as 'unnecessary' but it seems totally appropriate and valid to me

It was! In fact I might be inclined to do the same, though taking readings for my own benefit only, had I been pushed to accept a SM, with the promise of no more need for manual readings. Point is, they can do so much to resolve the mobile data access problems, such as outdoor antennas, plus I understand - the readings being able to be passed to other meters in the area, which might have better access.

 

[JohnW2]

It was!

I'm glad you agree!

In fact I might be inclined to do the same, though taking readings for my own benefit only, had I been pushed to accept a SM, with the promise of no more need for manual readings.

Indeed - that is precisely what I have promised/threatened my supplier with, since they were trying to using the fact that I would no longer 'have to' supply meter readings as a way of persuading me to let them fit a 'smart' meter - given that I think they would struggle with the comms.

Point is, they can do so much to resolve the mobile data access problems, such as outdoor antennas, plus I understand - the readings being able to be passed to other meters in the area, which might have better access.

Yes, I understand that there are all those approaches (and others) that they can take in attempts to get reliable communications - but I'm not convinced that they can really be bothered to go to that trouble, since I seem to have successfully 'put them off', for quite a long time, just by suggesting that there would probably be a comms problem here.

Kind Regards, John

 

[morqthana]

That's what we (the rest of us) were discussing

That is, indeed, a problem, but it's not what we've been discussing, and nor is it an issue specific to 'smart' meters. It's an issue with most (maybe all?) current/recent (i.e. 'electronic') meters. To get readings from my 'dumb' (but 'electronic) meter, I (who am pretty 'elderly' ) not only have to use a stepladder, but also definitely have to 'push buttons'.

I have no SMs, and no buttons to press.

But I do have eyes which have aged to the extent that I no longer need distance correction, only reading glasses. And my gas meter under the stairs (a mechanical one), unless I stick my head in there, has digits which are blurred with reading glasses on, but not quite large enough for the naked eye. The electricity meter next to it has an electronic display, not digit wheels or pointers, and it perfectly legible from standing in the hall.

 

[morqthana]

The estimated bills are, of course, not 'blind guesses' but are usually true estimates based on historical data, and will rarely be grossly incorrect.

That will be why, if estimated readings are used all the time, no customer ever finds their credit balance inexorably increasing....

 

[JohnW2]

That will be why, if estimated readings are used all the time, no customer ever finds their credit balance inexorably increasing....

Indeed - unless, of course, their consumption had, for some reason, markedly reduced, and remained reduced.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

An interesting personal development....

There is a property for which I am responsible for the electricity supply, which I visit only occasionally and is quite often unoccupied, which has a 'smart' meter.

My supplier (Ovo) have just contacted me saying that their 'smart' meter has not provided them with meter readings for the last couple of weeks or so and asking me "if I would mind" providing them with a meter reading.

In reply, I have said that I would 'mind' doing as they ask, I pointed out that the primary reason i agreed to their fitting a 'smart' meter was their assurance that it would remove the need for me to provide them with readings (obviously difficult for me, since I am rarely there) - so that if they want readings, they will simply have to send a meter reader to get them - and adding that, since there is only occasionally someone there to provide access, the meter reader will have to make an appointment to visit at a date/time which is convenient for me!

I await their response to my reply

Kind Regards, John