Sorry, but this is important.

[Odds]

Melt

Plum.

Wrods of four letters game is that way

 

[pete01]

Plum.

Wrods of four letters game is that way

Ok thanks mate.....we have a good old laugh together dont we, me and you

 

[King Billy]

If a trans woman/biological man with a beard wants to walk down the high street in a dress that’s one thing.

Are there any transwomen dressed in a dress and a beard?
Or is this just a hypothetical scenario?

But they shouldn’t be in changing spaces and toilets with female adults and children. Especially not on the basis that they are for all purposes a woman.

The vast majority are like any other woman. They don't change gender with the intention of committing crime.
There have been a few cases, which have been exploited to ostracise and pillory all trans people.
These few cases of people committing gender fraud have been prosecuted, as they should be.
But just like any other type of crime, potential criminals will exploit opportunities to commit crimes which impact us all. But we don't invent processes and procedures to ensure the opportunity to commit crime never arises.
Because some people steal we don't deny everyone the opportunity to own stuff, on the odd chance someone will steal it. It's a perfect case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Scammers will continue to scam people out of their savings, but we don't stop people having savings in case they're scammed. We educate them to make them aware of the possibility.

 

[pete01]

Maybe we need a 3rd set of toilets or would we need 4?

 

[JohnD]

Allowing a trans woman who was a regular harmless bloke into the women's changing room in a gym is a very different proposition from allowing one who has a history of violence into a women's prison, but every other "gender" criterion could be the same.

Wrong.

People who are not women are not entitled to access spaces and events that are reserved exclusively for women.

Your choice of "Gender" is irrelevant.

 

[King Billy]

Wrong.

People who are not women are not entitled to access spaces and events that are reserved exclusively for women.

Your choice of "Gender" is irrelevant.

But you are not able to tell us what charaterisitcs are required for a woman to be a woman.
So how can you prevent those that adopt the female gender being a woman?

 

[Odds]

But you are not able to tell us what charaterisitcs are required for a woman to be a woman.
So how can you prevent those that adopt the female gender being a woman?

Now it gets complicated.

Does the same criteria apply to a woman who transitions to a man?

 

[pete01]

@morqthana @King Billy

Come on guys you are either twins or one person?

Come on lad(s).....

 

[JohnD]

So how can you prevent those that adopt the female gender being a woman?

I don't need to "prevent" a man being a woman.

A man is not a woman.

You don't seem to accept that fact.

 

[King Billy]

Now it gets complicated.

Does the same criteria apply to a woman who transitions to a man?

People like JohnD are not concerned with male genders accessing male spaces, irrespective of their sex decided at birth.
They focus on the emotive issue of females accessing female only spaces to exploit the additional emotive pressure angendered by the few cases of gender fraud.

 

[JohnD]

But most importantly, how does something like this:



help with creating a framework which allows society to fairly, without prejudice, deal with transgender people?

Since you don't accept that a man is not a woman, you aren't really getting to grips with the fact that people who are not women, are not entitled to access spaces and events that are reserved exclusively for women.

It is not fair, or unprejudiced, to pretend that women have no right to women-only spaces and events.

 

[JohnD]

People like JohnD are not concerned with male genders

I have no interest in your attempts to divert into the fantasy of assumed "gender"

 

[blup]

Are there any transwomen dressed in a dress and a beard?
Or is this just a hypothetical scenario?

Yes our local co op

The vast majority are like any other woman. They don't change gender with the intention of committing crime.
There have been a few cases, which have been exploited to ostracise and pillory all trans people.
These few cases of people committing gender fraud have been prosecuted, as they should be.
But just like any other type of crime, potential criminals will exploit opportunities to commit crimes which impact us all. But we don't invent processes and procedures to ensure the opportunity to commit crime never arises.
Because some people steal we don't deny everyone the opportunity to own stuff, on the odd chance someone will steal it. It's a perfect case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Scammers will continue to scam people out of their savings, but we don't stop people having savings in case they're scammed. We educate them to make them aware of the possibility.

I accept we’re talking about a small minority but that is where principle is engaged

 

[JohnD]

their sex decided at birth.

I have no interest in your attempt to pretend that sex is "assigned" or "decided."

 

[JohnD]

meaningless comments such as "A man is not a woman."

It is not meaningless.

It is a fact that you seek to obscure.