Strange Request.... car plumbing

[alansdad]

Hi, I hope there is someone out there who can advise me on this.

I wanted to flush out the heater matrix on my car. The rubber water pipes in the engine bay were jammed on solid to the "brass/copper" (?) pipes that go into the heater matrix. There is very little room for hands or tools in the space where they connect. In the end I foolishly resorted to mole grips to give a little twist to break the seal. The good news is that I did eventually get the b*gg*rs off. The bad news is that I crimped and bent the metal pipes. These pipes pass through a hole in the bulkhead from the matrix which is situated behind the dash. It would be a nightmare to get the matrix out.


I have managed to open the pipes up enough for a good flow of water and I have flushed out the matrix. The photo shows the pipe before I prized it open a bit, so it is not quite as bad now. I used an expanding rawl bolt and a right angled rod to get some of the dent out. Still pretty bad though.

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My Problem is that the pipes are still too crimped to get the rubber pipes back on and make a water tight joint. So I wonder if there are any bright ideas on un-crimping the pipes. Or.....?



An idea I have is to get some kind of waterproof/ heat proof/ pressure proof compound or paste and cover the outside of the buckled pipes then put an over sized rubber pipe over the crimped pipes and use a jubilee/ worm clip to hold it in place. The paste would have to handle boiling water and antifreeze, the pressure of the system and the vibration of the car. It has to make contact with the rubber pipe and the metal pipe and set firmly but allow for future removal.


I have no idea what compound would be best suited for this plan and welcome any advice or brand names or possible snags.

I had been thinking on the lines of a compound that sets to a firm rubbery setting. It would take the vibration and compress slightly under the pressure of the jubilee clip. I hadn't thought of making a hard round shape again as I don't think I will be able to get it round enough, given its awkward location.( I can get my finger tips to it but not really work on it). Also I suspect the seal between say, araldite and the metal, would not handle the constant temperature changes, sub zero to boiling, and subsequent expanding and contracting plus the engine vibration. I might be wrong on that.

I was searching websites and wonder if any one has an opinion of these products or any other suggestions. PLUMBERS MATE, FERNOX LS-X, ROCOL OILSEAL, ROCOL PIPE SEAL, JET BLUE, JB WELD.

I am sure that most of the people who visit this forum would have more knowledge and opinions than me on this kind of stuff. Please keep the suggestions flowing.

Thanks Jez

Matrix pipes 1

• alansdad
• 29 Jan 2011
• 1

Tucked in behind the engine, buried under the pipes and looms, two pipes from the heater matrix...

Matrix pipes 2

• alansdad
• 29 Jan 2011
• 1

 

[Nige F]

Haven`t got a scooby but - if you had cut along the length of the rubber pipe with a stanley knife

 

[Whitespirit66]

Not sure what to do to fix the stubs. The left might seal, but the right one looks knackered. To have any hope of making a seal, the right one will need more work, though may break in the process.

Perhaps someone else has the answer, but new or s. hand matrix may be the only way.

My main advice is for the next time you have rubber hoses stuck on the metal stub. Cut it with a stanley knife. Much cheaper and easier to replace a hose than a matrix or rad.

 

[Whitespirit66]

Sorry, Nige F beat me to it.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Best idea I can suggest is to try inserting a suitable tool into the tails and trying to (gently) bend the pipe to as near round as you can. Then refit the hoses, jubilee clips should form the required shape as you tighten them.

Cant think of anything that will seal what you have there.... Would have been better to slice the hoses lengthways and remove them that way. Hoses easier to repair or replace than the heater matrix!

Edit. Nige has also beaten me to it!

 

[plumbandplumber]

Have you ever thought about using a stanle knife to cut the hose length ways?

 

[Deleted member 105431]

A rothenburger pipe expander may salvage the pipes.

 

[Axel]

1. Work on the right hand one using a pointed but not too sharp tool, trying to push out the dents from the inside.

2. Apply http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plastic-Padding-Leak-Fix-Mini/dp/B0001P0IH4 to the outside of the metal pipes and shape it before it sets to a cylindrical shape using a 2 halves (cut lengthways) of a piece of hose, so as to make a smooth pipe shaped exterior over the pipe. Remove the "mould" before the Leak Fix sets.

3. Once it has set, apply a little more fresh Leak Fix over the outside of the 'new' pipe exteriors that you have made. Quickly put on the rubber pipes that you intend to use and then tighten on at least 2 jubilee clips onto each hose. Tight, but not so tight as to deform everything

4. Once the leak fix has had time to set, fill up with water, antifreeze etc and test. Keep checking regularly under the bonnet for next few weeks and into the summer months when the engine will run on full heat in a traffic jam or up a hill.

5. Hopefully, the worst it would do is have a small leak that would cause eventual loss of radiator coolant, but you'll be checking this regularly, eh? There shouldn't be a sudden catastrophic failure if you use the above method.

Do let us know if you adopt the above method and if it actually works!!

 

[ursamajor]

Even if you had easy access to it or could remove the matrix to work on it, I doubt that you'd ever get it good enough and would quite probably tear the annealed copper that it is.

So,it's out with the Haynes manual and find a replacement from a scrapyard, main dealer or online.

 

[HERTS P&D]

I hope no-one has mentioned this but you could of used a stanley knife and cut along the rubber hose.

Andy

 

[TicklyT]

Something like Devcon 'Plastic Steel' may get you out of trouble.

I would consider using it to fix some copper pipe tails inside the the remains of the spigots.

If you solder some solder ring fittings to the ends of the tails first, they have convenient ribs on them to clamp rubber hoses to.

 

[hi1]

Needs moving to DIY disasters.

 

[alansdad]

Thank you for the comments Gents. Yes, I knew nano seconds after I had mangled the pipes that I should have used a Stanley knife Believe me that I don't need reminding.

I had an idea that the rubber pipes would simply need a "slightly" better grip on them than I could get with my finger tips and a little twist was all they would need to break the seal.
Part of the problem was not being able to see that the mole grips had got a serious bite on the pipes and also I thought that the metal pipes were shorter and made of sterner stuff.
Hind sight is a wonderful teacher.

Moving on ....

Axel. Thanks that sounds like a very good idea. I like the molding method.

 

[alansdad]

Something like Devcon 'Plastic Steel' may get you out of trouble.

I would consider using it to fix some copper pipe tails inside the the remains of the spigots.

If you solder some solder ring fittings to the ends of the tails first, they have convenient ribs on them to clamp rubber hoses to.

Another good idea. Thanks. Do you think that "Plastic Steel" would be strong enough to hold the pipe tails in, given that the fit of the pipe tails would not be very snug in the bent spigots?

 

[merlin50]

take the matrix out and fix it, the pipes can be replaced by someone that knows what they are doing. you will end up loosing water and cooking the engine