Supporting floor joists using hanging brackets of steel

[Chameleonclaude]

I want to run an h beam the entire length of the house and dont want it visible from the ground floor.

Ive seen on tv people using brackets that hang from the steel and hold each timber which would be trimmed to right length.

Can anyone tell me the erminology and where i can get the things from?

Also, can the upstairs be supported using steel props with timber planks running on top of the ceiling plaster board or must i cut the ceiling plaster out?

I know i sound like a complete amateur but i'm a quick learner [/b]

 

[jeds]

Joist hangers - any builders yard.

Don't understand the props/ceiling question.

 

[^woody^]

Now that you know the name of these metal things, I would still think twice before rushing out to buy some and mess with the floor. A competent person should be designing this - steel beam and method of support. Its also notifiable to the council building control team

You can use a plank up against the plaster ceiling without needing to chop it out

 

[Chameleonclaude]

Thanks woody and jeds.

 

[noseall]

We have found the simplest way is to bolt a timber into the web then fix jiffy hangers to the web timber.

The advantage with this method is that you can fix the floor joists to the web timber using skewed screws prior to actually wrapping the jiffies around the joist.

What this means is that you can line up the joist a lot easier with the plane of the existing floor rather than guess how the joist will sit in a jiffy and worry about having the jiffy correctly spread.

Another way is to actually let the joist sit into the web but this can be fiddly with both notching the joist and fitting.

 

[Chameleonclaude]

Noseall, thanks for guidance. What do you think about the method of placing a timber along the top rail of the joist that then alows hangers to nail downward into that timber?

You obviously do it all the time, but as an amateur (who will go through proper protocol) it's frightening to think that the hangers will bear so much weight with just a few screws, whatever gage they are?

I'm pondering whether the brick walls upstairs out to be proped using acros etc. or whether to rip it all out and build stud walls. I gues cost wise, keeping the walls is the way to go, but again it's pretty fritening stuff when it's not your bread and butter 😥

 

[noseall]

You obviously do it all the time, but as an amateur (who will go through proper protocol) it's frightening to think that the hangers will bear so much weight with just a few screws, whatever gage they are?

It is only when demolishing buildings that you get a true feel for just how strong many little fixings really are.

You have no idea of the force required to bash apart a well fixed jiffy even when there are as few as two fixings left.

Granted, building control will insist that all available fixing holes are occupied but believe me, when they are, there is no load that you can impart on that floor that will phase 'em.

there is nowt wrong with wrapping the excess part of the jiffy over the beam and hammering down oot of the way.

 

[noseall]

I'm pondering whether the brick walls upstairs out to be proped using acros etc. or whether to rip it all out and build stud walls. I gues cost wise, keeping the walls is the way to go, but again it's pretty fritening stuff when it's not your bread and butter ��

Keep the walls and let the steel do its job.

Using the existing joists as needles is common practice and the acros will take the weight of a small planet. Use a stout plank under the joists as a prop header.

Dunner worry.

 

[Chameleonclaude]

If i wanted to keep the walls but wanted the steel concealed between floors would that mean removing floor boards using acros to about two courses above the upstairs floor level.

If so would you use timber pins going all the way through or would you use those flat steel plate thingy's.

Man, i'm just about hanging in there with the jargon 😣

 

[noseall]

You would be required to 'needle' above the proposed beam position. This could be as little as a course of bricks above the beam.

We have used all kinds of things as needles, the least intrusive and strongest for size being scaffold tubes. Getting them to sit still on an acro top plate whilst winding is another matter!

 

[Static]

You want to run a beam the entire length of your house?! Well first you need to size the beam so that it sits within the floor zone.. you may well find the size of beam required is far deeper than your floor joists so all this is irrelevant..

 

[Chameleonclaude]

Well i suppose if a steel as deep as the joists can't bear the weight of the brick walls it will need to hold up, i shall have to knock the walls down upstairs and replace with stud walls. This ought to bring the load within tolerance.

Does anyone know a structural engineer who can do calcs based on drawings. Cheap is good!

 

[noseall]

Well i suppose if a steel as deep as the joists can't bear the weight of the brick walls it will need to hold up, i shall have to knock the walls down upstairs and replace with stud walls. This ought to bring the load within tolerance.

What if the wall in question is supporting stuff in the roof?

If it is the case then you are better off leaving the wall intact. Granted, you may be able to design a stud wall that will take the load of any roof members but it will still be transferred down onto the beam.

Even if the wall is doing nowt but partitioning you still have the floor load to carry both dead and live etc.

 

[Chameleonclaude]

The rafters run at 90degrees to the upstairs floor joists so i think i'm okay there.