Supporting Ukraine

[JP_]

He knows that's not going to happen. It will probably mean N.A.T.O. will put more nukes in Europe.

Exactly. Just watched the Russian foreign minister, bloody depressing stuff.
It is now clear that they are going to paint everybody that disagrees with them as provocative and an enemy.

Remove the nukes, get nuked.
Keep the nukes, get nuked.
Enforce a no-fly zone, get nuked.
Don't enforce a no-fly zone, watch millions of people burn.

We can't win this, and Putin knows it. Probably been planning this for 2 years of pandemic - he caught the west sleeping.

 

[Dork Lard]

Can we rid ourselves of all these thoughts of lobbing nuclear bombs at each other?

It'll never happen, unless by mistake.

 

[JohnD]

It is now clear that they are going to paint everybody that disagrees with them as provocative and an enemy.

as happened under Stalin the First.

The current leader is using the techniques that worked before.

However, nobody is obliged to believe it or sit back helplessly.

 

[ic1927]

 

[JP_]

Can we rid ourselves of all these thoughts of lobbing nuclear bombs at each other?

It'll never happen, unless by mistake.

People also said there'd never be another war in Europe.

Russia has tactical nuclear weapons that they might well use, not the massive ones that take out whole cities, but the smaller ones that are fired from mobile rocket launchers that can destroy military compounds and make any large scale land defence impossible.

Of course, the current situation is the same - we stand with Ukraine, while watching them get destroyed.

Once Russia has a foothold in Ukraine, where next? Their military is still larger than all of the EU's, and can act as a single unit.

Reminds me of the film Don't Look Up. Nobody wants to believe that it will get worse.

 

[JohnD]

MEDIA

good to see the policy of appeasement is still alive

that's always worked well in the past

hasn't it?

 

[wobs]

Once Russia has a foothold in Ukraine, where next? Their military is still larger than all of the EU's, and can act as a single unit.

Nukes aside, their military maybe numerous, but their gear is outdated, and poorly maintained.

Also, they rely heavily on rail for moving heavy stuff around (especially heavy gear). Added to this, they use a wide gauge rail, which most of Europe don't use, so they are very limited as to what they can do beyond their own borders in the West.
"Russian army logistics forces are not designed for a large-scale ground offensive far from their railroads."
https://warontherocks.com/2021/11/feeding-the-bear-a-closer-look-at-russian-army-logistics/
The link is an interesting assessment of Russian abilities written late last year.

However, Kyiv is not too far from the border, so that is probably a factor that tempted Putin to try this. Looking at those lines of trucks suggests he's struggling with logistics big time.

 

[JP_]

Nukes aside, their military maybe numerous, but their gear is outdated, and poorly maintained.

They spend more on their military than Europe, maybe it is better than many people believe.

they rely heavily on rail for moving heavy stuff around (especially heavy gear). Added to this, they use a wide gauge rail, which most of Europe don't use, so they are very limited as to what they can do beyond their own borders in the West.

As you mention, there is a 40 mile convoy of military equipment moving towards Kyiv right now, on the roads. Maybe they can't move everything this way, but they only need to be able to move enough.

 

[wobs]

They spend more on their military than Europe, maybe it is better than many people believe.

Not only is their gear outdated (beyond some showboating), the West was able to listen in on their communications enough to know they were about to invade, and told the world.

As you mention, there is a 40 mile convoy of military equipment moving towards Kyiv right now, on the roads. Maybe they can't move everything this way, but they only need to be able to move enough.

True. But relying on one road this way to take Kyiv is a vulnerable position. The link I put up states that such a weakness should be exploited by attacking the supply chain rather than the front line. Apparenly the Allies suffered a similar issue in Operation Market Garden
I don't pretend to be a expert in military matters, and go by those more knowledgeable.

 

[Mottie]

Blow/dig the road/bridges up.

 

[JP_]

weakness should be exploited by attacking the supply chain rather than the front line

Yes, but with the air force mostly grounded, Ukraine can't attack this convoy.

Allies could send drones in, but that is probably what Putin wants, so he can declare war on Europe.

 

[JohnD]

"stay behind" groups with anti tank weapons could cause some inconvenience

but unlikely to survive long enough for a second shot.

 

[wobs]

Yes, but with the air force mostly grounded, Ukraine can't attack this convoy.

Allies could send drones in, but that is probably what Putin wants, so he can declare war on Europe.

Indeed. What they need to do and what they can do could well be very different things. We just don't know atm.

Meanwhile Lukashenko turns out to be real Musollini character.

 

[AngleEyes]

Once Russia has a foothold in Ukraine, where next? Their military is still larger than all of the EU's, and can act as a single unit.

EU doesn't have a military.
It's constituent member states do, and most of them are in NATO. (30 members of NATO - 27 members of EU. Turkey, USA. UK and Canada are in NATO but not in EU)
Ireland, Switzerland and a few others are declared neutral.

 

[jeds]

The line of tanks and vehicles is a dubious tactic. Ok in 1945, but not with guided off the shoulder ant-tank missiles (Javelin) available today. Apparently, several thousand are on their way to Ukraine as we speak. Whether they can be deployed in time is another question? If they are things might get very heated for the Russians.