The future is wind and solar.

nuclear really isn't the way at all, as noseall says we should all use less for a start but long term it's got to be renewables.
http://www.nirs.org/neconomics/risks_of_nuclear_investment_published.pdf[/QUOTE]

I'm only reading the executive summery, but that is full of holes.



Market risk. By the time any new nuclear plant could be built in the UK (2020 or later), the market for its electricity will be disappearing, regardless of any possible increase in the overall demand for electricity. The rapidly-declining cost of photovoltaics (PV) with the falling costs of other renewables, and the likely completion of the European internal market for electricity with the strengthening of the European transmission grid, will be transforming the market for electricity in the UK, and throughout the rest of Europe and beyond. Consumers, large and small, will be empowered to generate much of their own electricity (on their own sites or elsewhere) or to buy it from anywhere in Europe, and this without the need for subsidies. Explosive growth of PV is likely to take much of the profitable peak-time market for electricity. And there will be stiff competition to fill in the gaps left by PV, from a range of renewable sources, many of which are better suited to the gap-filling roll than is nuclear power.

So basically...

1. we don't need nuclear because we can just buy our electricity from Europe :LOL:
2. other renewable will fill the gap from solar (which has an obvious fatal flaw), cept what are they? wind doesn't work (still needs gas turbine backup), wave power is still a new tech, no one knows yet if the price will come down to competitive levels.




• Cost risk. There is good evidence that, contrary to the often-repeated claims that nuclear power is cheap

The cloths that people wear in nuke stations is treated as extremely hazardous waste, it isn't.

Of course nuclear power is expensive, the safety measures are insane.....

The introduction of new safety measures after the Fukushima disaster will push up prices further

Case in point. The Fukushima plant "survived" an earthquake just over it's design (new plants at the time already had higher standards), the radiation leaked was minimal http://xkcd.com/radiation/

But now all nuke plants have to be built to withstand earthquakes on the same scale as Fukishima, even if they are no-where near a fault zone.


• Subsidy risk. Although nuclear power is a long-established industry which should be commercially viable without support, it depends heavily on subsidies.

Insane safety requirements = expensive = needs subsidy.

Now I may actually agree with the safety requirements, but that's the price.

Reliable electricity is just as important as cheap electricity, renewable can be used as part of a strategy, but with present tech, it aint gonna be the only solution.

• Construction risk. The delays and cost overruns in the Olkiluoto and Flamanville nuclear projects are just recent examples of nuclear projects where actual build times and actual costs greatly exceed

There are 400+ reactors worldwide, I can't be arsed to read the rest of the report to see if it can name more than 2.




Sorry, whilst I am not exactly jumping with joy at the prospect of nuclear, I like living in a modern industrial world, and have no desire to lead "the good life".
 
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Wind and solar.

So at the moment we're getting people ruining the look of their houses with these huge solar panels, next things gonna be a blimmin' wind turbine in the back garden!
 
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I'm only reading the executive summery, but that is full of holes.

I read the whole thing and it's no better.

Wont be running out of oil any time soon!

We have run out of the cheap oil, that's the problem. The rest of the oil is going to be very expensive to get out.

North Dakota oil is the next big one....more oil there than the whole of the Persian Gulf, about 900 billion barrels and not so difficult to recover.

Obviously we will runout of oil one day, but it wont be for a very very long time....some sceptics think the next 20 years or so (Joe-90) :rolleyes:
 
Big debate in the ROI at the moment regarding fuel prices. Petrol is about to hit two euro per liter.
Thats about 100 euro for an average fill up.
Though the government is shafting it big time.
 
North Dakota oil is the next big one....more oil there than the whole of the Persian Gulf, about 900 billion barrels and not so difficult to recover.

Can you provide an authoritative source? None of the ones I've looked at (eg USGS) come close to agreeing with either of your claims.
 
There are no more 'big ones' do a google. America production has fallen since 1970. BTW oil won't run out - but cheap oil IS running out today.
 
Moon makes sea go up and down and wind helps make waves. Doubt we have as much say in lunar stuff as we reckon we have on t'earth. One solution is in the seas and oceans.

On t'other hand, sun makes thing hot and night lets it cool. Heat differential can create impetus.

Plenty of thing around to make things we need to burn cleanly like hydrogen.
 
North Dakota oil is the next big one....more oil there than the whole of the Persian Gulf, about 900 billion barrels and not so difficult to recover.

Can you provide an authoritative source? None of the ones I've looked at (eg USGS) come close to agreeing with either of your claims.

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/06/...d-put-country-on-path-to-energy-independence/

http://oil-price.net/en/articles/north-dakota-oil-boom.php

There is a lot of oil in Bakken formation, I believe they drill horizontally for it.

America production has fallen since 1970. BTW oil won't run out - but cheap oil IS running out today

It has been increasing for the last 4 years, reached its highest for over a decade in 2011
 
As I said, the authoritative USGS report doesn't come close to your claim. USGS said 3 to 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, you claimed 900 billion. So where is the other 895 +- billion coming from?

And it's locked in shale, that doesn't give up hydrocarbons easily, and when it does give them up it doesn't last long. Shale is all hype, it might be down there but it's nigh on impossible to get out in quantity, and there is no technology on the horizon to change that.
 
As I said, the authoritative USGS report doesn't come close to your claim. USGS said 3 to 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, you claimed 900 billion. So where is the other 895 +- billion coming from?

And it's locked in shale, that doesn't give up hydrocarbons easily, and when it does give them up it doesn't last long. Shale is all hype, it might be down there but it's nigh on impossible to get out in quantity, and there is no technology on the horizon to change that.

Bakken, to explain it further, is the largest oil formation discovered in the last forty years. The estimated amount of oil in the Bakken Shale Formation is said to be 900 billion barrels. For a comparison, if you may, Bakken has more oil than the entire Persian Gulf (747 billion barrels). According to the U.S. Geological Survey, this oil formation is located in the Williston Basin, and is the largest 'continuous-type' oil accumulation ever assessed, stretching from Canada into North Dakota and Montana.

I can only relay what genuine sources report. The USGS actually did get it wrong originally, there is 25 times more than they said.

With advacnces in technology, you can be certain they will do everything they can to extract every last drop, regardless of cost.
 
No they won't. Oil companies are in it to make money and if it costs too much to get it out of the ground they will leave it there. Loads of known oil in the ground which will never see the light of day.

You are still 895 billion barrels short of your claim. If there was as much recoverable oil down there as you say then the price of oil on the world market would be halved overnight. That oil has been known to be there for over 50 years and they are still not pumping much out.

Though I am sure if you wanted to invest they would take your money :)
 
Wind and solar.

So at the moment we're getting people ruining the look of their houses with these huge solar panels, next things gonna be a blimmin' wind turbine in the back garden!

I'll agree that the panels aren't the prettist things in the world but the windmills do have a certain peaceful charm are are definately better to look at than a nuclear power station.
As to us all having a turbine in the back garden, that probably won't happen except for homemade jobbies. Goggle warwick wind experiment.
 
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