Trade with EU

[Himaginn]

John boy forgets that the EU is all about "control" (something they've lost in recent months,, They've lost control of their external borders.

There never have been EU external border controls! Therefore, how could they have lost control over something that's never been in existence!

You're talking utter rubbish ......again.
Criticism on some contrived imaginary non-event designed to invoke some urban mythology.
You're an irresponsible gossip merchant.

The EU have always relied on the individual members' border controls at the extremities of the EU zone.

Now if you're suggesting that EU should fund and control its external borders, I for one would wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially if it goes hand-in-hand with an EU funded transitory process to accept, house and assist the refugees. Along with further processes to target the people smugglers.
The current migration crisis may (hopefully) motivate and encourage these measures.

The border controls are going up in many EU countries, wholly due to Merkel's open invite)

If you're referring to Macedonia, the last time I looked Macedonia was not in EU.

Additionally:

Are they allowed to?
Yes; it's inconvenient for travelers but it's not breaking the rules. Europe's refugee emergency is considered to be an exceptional event. Countries fearing for public safety due to unpredictable migrant movements must give notice of their intentions to the European Commission, which supervises the Schengen rulebook.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...now-have-border-checks-in-place-a6796296.html

 

[Himaginn]

Now could you present us with a similar bar chart for imports and exports after withdrawal from the EU?

You could have imagined this for yourself.
You're just being obtuse again!

 

[Himaginn]

And Britain's economy has improved since 1973? Who's to say that's due to membership of the EEC/EC/EU and not something else? Or that without joining it wouldn't have improved even more, so that it's a case of having grown in the last 40 years despite being in the EEC/EC/EU?

Forgotten this already? 1968 A mere 5 years before we joined EU!

 

[PBC_1966]

View attachment 94454

And there's an example of the "doom and gloom" approach of scaremongering.

 

[Himaginn]

View attachment 94454

And there's an example of the "doom and gloom" approach of scaremongering.

The alternative is acceptance of EFTA conditions including Schengen agreement.

 

[PBC_1966]

And the evidence that without agreeing to the EFTA exports to the EU would plummet to the extent you suggest is.......... ?

 

[JohnD]

How much do you think it would plummet by?

 

[Himaginn]

And the evidence that without agreeing to the EFTA exports to the EU would plummet to the extent you suggest is.......... ?

There is no evidence, similarly there is no projection of trade coming from those campaigning for Brexit, 'cos it's a leap into the unknown!

Additionally, IDS and Nigel are both agreeing that a trade agreement with EU is essential.

Surely a sensible and rational approach would have been to negotiate a trade agreement then campaign for Brexit.
Then we could sensibly weigh one against the other.
But the Brexit-ers know full well, that any tade agreement will include the schengen agreement so we'll be going solo in the event of Brexit.
Or we'll be dismantling our borders with EU.

 

[PBC_1966]

How much do you think it would plummet by?

I don't think it would plummet at all.

There is no evidence, similarly there is no projection of trade coming from those campaigning for Brexit, 'cos it's a leap into the unknown!

So claiming that exports to the EU would plummet to a tiny fraction of their current level is just scaremongering then.

 

[Himaginn]

How much do you think it would plummet by?

I don't think it would plummet at all.

There is no evidence, similarly there is no projection of trade coming from those campaigning for Brexit, 'cos it's a leap into the unknown!

So claiming that exports to the EU would plummet to a tiny fraction of their current level is just scaremongering then.

Campaigning for Brexit without knowing what's going to happen with any trade agreement, or if there will be one, is lunacy.

 

[Himaginn]

Interesting that the attempt to get a referendum, before Cameron's promise of a referendum was possible prior the last General Election, was stopped by the Lords.
Why was it stopped?

Earlier, peers made further changes to the Bill when they voted through changes which would force the Government to provide a full assessment before any proposed referendum in 2017 of what Britain's relationship with Europe would look like if the country withdrew from the EU...
Peers were under pressure to pass it speedily and without amendment to ensure it could proceed before the end of the Parliamentary session.

The vote, after more than an hour of debate in the Bill's committee stage, was on the amendment brought forward by crossbench peer Lord Turnbull to compel the government of the day to lay down before the electorate what it thinks will happen in the event of withdrawal from the EU.

So the eurosceptics didn't want an assessment of what is likely to happen in the even of Brexit.
This was two years ago. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/457246/EU-Referendum-Bill-killed-off-in-the-House-of-Lords
I guess they still don't.

 

[JohnD]

Much like the Pro EU lot bandying round words like "Doom and Gloom.

The funny thing is that only you and PBC have been using those words.

So either you and PBC are secretly pro-euro, or you are telling fibs again.

Do try to be more honest.

 

[Himaginn]

Do try to be more honest.

Jockscott is the master of disinformation:

All of europe has free health care,

Hmm, you've obviously never been taken ill in Spain then.

But:

As an expat, you are entitled to free state healthcare if you are:

• staying temporarily in Spain and have an EHIC card.

• http://www.expatica.com/es/healthcare/Getting-healthcare-in-Spain_101467.html

Anything that jockscott says is usually a misinterpretation, misrepresentation or intentional disinformation.

 

[jockscott]

From your link Himmy,,,,

If you have an EHIC card issued by an EU-member state and you are in Spain on a holiday or other temporary visit – that is, you are not yet a resident in Spain – you can use your EHIC to access state healthcare in Spain.
You can use the EHIC to get any medically necessary treatment (as determined by the doctor you see) through the state system either at a reduced cost or free

So not all health care whilst on holiday in Spain is free..

 

[Himaginn]

From your link Himmy,,,,

If you have an EHIC card issued by an EU-member state and you are in Spain on a holiday or other temporary visit – that is, you are not yet a resident in Spain – you can use your EHIC to access state healthcare in Spain.
You can use the EHIC to get any medically necessary treatment (as determined by the doctor you see) through the state system either at a reduced cost or free

So not all health care whilst on holiday in Spain is free..

Of course not, only that:

to get any medically necessary treatment (as determined by the doctor you see)

So your cosmetic surgery won't be covered.

But any costs incurred can be reimbursed (as long as you have receipts) from UK.

The Spanish healthcare service is regularly rated among the world’s best, guaranteeing universal coverage and no upfront expenditure from patients apart from paying a proportion of prescription charges

More importantly, UK expats are treated in the same way as Spanish citizens, e.g. prescription charges are paid as if you are a Spanish citizen, Dental treatment, etc.

But these charges are reimbursable.

Most importantly, if you are taken ill in a EU country, you will if necessary, be taken to hospital for treatment, or whatever before the charges/costs are even considered.