Tubular Electronic Transformer

[securespark]

Hello
In the early 90's I fitted recessed lighting in my Ma's kitchen.
The transformers were grey and tubular, with both primary and secondary leads at one end. Newlec sold similar units under their name.

I thought it was IBL or IPL and London rings a bell.

Both those companies manufacture transformers but I cannot find these tubular transformers anywhere.
I was at Ma's place today, but cannot get up ladders so could not pull one down to look.
She wants to convert to LED's so I wanted to ask the mfr if their trannies were able to run them.

Can anybody help identify these please?

 

[sparkymarka]

IBL are still going ....google them and view images

 

[securespark]

Thank you!!

 

[sparkymarka]

No problem

 

[winston1]

*******************deleted.


But you can get 240 volt recessed LEDs.

 

[securespark]

Some electronic transformers do run LEDs, but by no means all.

 

[333rocky333]

Wf were still selling them recently, but branded alto, they look the same and are likely made by IBL, though grey in colour.
I have only ever seen black IBL originals

Ibl were proberly the first makers of electronic trans with thermal and resettable protection, up to then most trans had replaceable fuses fitted, which were a pain to replace.
The type you have were known as cigar shape trans originally designed for 35mm downlight holes as opposed to Barrel trans which were fat and stumpy for the 50mm downlight holes
Theres a 50va and a 105 va version.
Ibl were all the rage in the early days and as you say were very reliable.
Though now they have changed to newlec and dropped Alto, not sure if wf still do them, but if neweys done them, then quite possible they still do.
The new ones have thicker output leads.

They may struggle with leds its a case of trying them
The 5ova has 20w min load and the 105va has a 35w min load.
Ibl i think still do Torroidal barrel ones, but they used to be quite dear compared with other makes.

 

[winston1]

Some electronic transformers do run LEDs, but by no means all.

Recessed LED spotlights are designed to run on DC or 50/60Hz AC sine wave not 10s of kHz square waves. If you run them off an SMPT (which I repeat is NOT a transformer) they may appear to work but they will overheat and have a short life.
I repeat LED spotlights are available in 240 volts so no driver required.

 

[ericmark]

I noted the LED lamps I bought were clearly marked 50 Hz, however that may be simply to show AC rather than DC since my pods are supplied from a toroidal transformer the output is 50 Hz. Running lamps designed for AC on DC could overload the rectifier or LED's.

Some LED lamps are designed to run with pulse width modulated power supplies, Philips do make a range which it seems are designed to kid the transformer into thinking it has enough load, but we have seem reports on these pages that they don't always work.

The idea behind the 12 volt lighting was it allowed thicker filaments inside the quartz bulb, and so extended their life, latter the regulated output of the pulse width modulated units extended the life even further, but these advantages don't role over to LED versions. So with LED may as well fit mains type. The problem with LED is the area illuminated is often reduced with cooling fins around the outside, so to compensate often you need more units, however since LED's run cooler you can now get surface lamps slightly larger than 2" which work far better because they are that little bit larger.

How one can state that a unit which transforms 230 volt 50 Hz to 12 volt in kHz range is not a transformer I don't know, it clearly does transform and are also clearly marked as electronic transformers. They may not contain a wire wound traditional unit, but they do transform so nothing wrong with name.

 

[aptsys]

How one can state that a unit which transforms 230 volt 50 Hz to 12 volt in kHz range is not a transformer I don't know, it clearly does transform and are also clearly marked as electronic transformers. They may not contain a wire wound traditional unit, but they do transform so nothing wrong with name.

There is a wirewound transformer inside for galvanic isolation.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They are not transformers, they are SMPS

Tubular Electronic Transformer

 

[winston1]

How one can state that a unit which transforms 230 volt 50 Hz to 12 volt in kHz range is not a transformer I don't know, it clearly does transform and are also clearly marked as electronic transformers. They may not contain a wire wound traditional unit, but they do transform so nothing wrong with name.

That is easy. In the electrical world a transformer is a wire wound device which changes voltage or current or isolates by electromagnetic induction without changing frequency. The term "electronic transformer" was invented by ignorant manufacturers or their marketing agents who don't know what a transformer is. There are plenty of other examples or similar ignorance which I won't go into now.

 

[ericmark]

There is a wirewound transformer inside for galvanic isolation.

The internals vary, most don't

have this symbol it means it isolates and also has overload protection, without the latter the isolation could be compromised. This one has the SELV mark, which means separated extra low voltage so should have a transformer inside, it also shows 0 - 105 VA so no problem with under load, no where does it give the output frequency, neither does it publish a maximum cable length, it is very likely one of these would run LED lights without a problem. However the LED lamps I bought from Lidi were clearly marked 50/60 Hz so one is taking a chance.

I think it is unlikely adding a diode which a LED lamp clearly is will turn the power supply into a radio transmitter of any problem strength. However I have know where a rusty bolt caused radio interference where rust was acting as a diode. The problem with the suck and see approach is you may not know what it knocks out, could be stopping your fire alarms working, who knows? When we test we do not test all possible effects, we hope that has already been done by manufacturer, personally easy way is move to 230 volt.

English differs from many other languages in that words can change their meaning, decimate comes from Latin and was when the Roman legions lost a battle they would kill one in ten to make them fight harder next time, deci = ten so is a precise number, however today this word seems to have reversed its meaning and is considered by many to get rid of nearly everything. And if you look it up in a 1950 dictionary it will say get rid of one in ten, but in a current dictionary it will say get rid of nearly everything possibility with a foot note to old meaning.

We are lucky with transformer, most call the switch mode power supply an electronic transformer so giving them two different names, the "driver" however was always used to refer to a current regulated device, however today it is also used to describe a voltage regulated device used to supply the real driver.

So all we need to do is remember a transformer and electronic transformer are not the same, is that so hard? As English goes what is wrong is not calling the wire wound version an "induction transformer" in some cases we do call it a tordonal transformer and really for lighting there are very few with the traditional iron core, so it is the people who call them transformers with no type stated who should be criticised, not those using the name electronic Transformer however this has already been done to death so why bring it up yet again?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In the electrical world a transformer is a wire wound device which changes voltage or current or isolates by electromagnetic induction without changing frequency.

But an electronic transformer is not such a device.

The term "electronic transformer" was invented by ignorant manufacturers or their marketing agents who don't know what a transformer is.

On the contrary - it's precisely because they did know that they coined the term "electronic transformer" to name their products. Ignorance would have led them to call them "transformers".

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have know where a rusty bolt caused radio interference where rust was acting as a diode.

I've heard (heard, not heard of) a rusty fence acting as a radio receiver.

when the Roman legions lost a battle they would kill one in ten to make them fight harder next time

No - that punishment was reserved for serious disciplinary offences. Simply losing a battle was not enough, although I'm sure that there would have been cases where failures of command were transformed into failures of desertion and cowardice on the part of the men.

The way they carried out the punishment was interesting, the men were split into groups of 10, drew lots, and the unlucky one had to be killed by the other nine.

this has already been done to death so why bring it up yet again?

Suggestions, please for a word to use in "because he is a <whatever>" which would be acceptable to the site.