Two meters down to one

[DanDIY]

Hi,
I am currently converting my property, which was two flats into one house.

There are two meters under the stairs, both coming from a single main supply. Its an old terrace house, so it has 100A main fuse, rather than an isolator.

One set of meter tails goes into a downstairs consumer unit, under the stairs. One goes through an old main switch to the consumer unit upstairs.

The downstairs meter unit is prepaid. The upstairs one is a normal meter.

I would like to have the prepaid meter removed. It seems that it would also be a good time to have a main isolating switch installed so that the consumenr units can be safely isolated, as there will likely be a lot of work going on in the near future consolidating the house circuits etc.

Am I right in saying that it would be the electricity distributor that would do this work. Would the same person that removed the meter fit the isolator?
As a teporary measure, until both are consolidated, would it be acceptable to have two outputs from the single isolator/meter that I am keeping to feed the two consumer units?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Contact the company responsible for the prepayment meter and ask them.
The policies of different companies vary.

If you do not know who they are look here:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=Rg6sU51E0NfyB_2RgfgD

 

[JohnW2]

One set of meter tails goes into a downstairs consumer unit, under the stairs. One goes through an old main switch to the consumer unit upstairs.

Do you know if that 'old main switch' contains a fuse? - it should.

The downstairs meter unit is prepaid. The upstairs one is a normal meter. I would like to have the prepaid meter removed. It seems that it would also be a good time to have a main isolating switch installed .... Am I right in saying that it would be the electricity distributor that would do this work. Would the same person that removed the meter fit the isolator?

I would think that you would first have to talk to your electricity supplier (the company to whom bills are paid), since it's probable that the pre-paid meter is associated with a separate account, which you will have to have 'terminated'. Once that is done, they would probably arrange for whatever 'meter operator' they use to remove that meter. However, you would probably then have to talk to the meter operator to determine whether they would be prepared to install an isolator and connect the upstairs (as well as well as downstairs) CU to it.

As a teporary measure, until both are consolidated, would it be acceptable to have two outputs from the single isolator/meter that I am keeping to feed the two consumer units?

I would have thought so, provided that the fuse I mentioned above is present in the feed to the upstairs CU. In fact, that arrangement could be permanent if you wanted - 'consolidating' everything into a single (presumably downstairs) CU would involve quite a lot of work, not the least in 'extending' (or replacing) all of the upstairs circuits, so that they would reach the downstairs CU.

Kind Regards, John

 

[DanDIY]

JohnW2

- I havent opened the old switch. It looks like a three phase isolator that has been borrowed from a commercial premesis at some point, so I expect it will be fused. Its certainly big enough, but I will check.

- I realise that consolidating the consumer units into one will be a lot of work for not a lot of reward (cosmetic mainly). Fortunately there are only two circuits for the upstairs flat that will be remaining (lights and sockets ringmain) the upstairs kitchen is coming out. The immersion heater is already gone etc. Also the upstairs ring needs enlarging/replacing as it only has a single socket in each room, and no sockets on the landing etc, so the upstairs lights is the only circuit that is staying in its current form.

Thanks for other advice I'll contact the meter people and make some enquiries. My main concern with doing this was that they might turn up, remove the meter and then not make good the connection to the downstairs consumer unit.
After removal I will need the downstairs consimer unit feeding from the 'upstairs' (remember both are under the stairs next to each other) meter which is billed by a seperate company. I am not sure if the person that removes the prepaid meter (british gas) will be willing to connect the normal meter (SSE) to the downstairs consimer unit, as its not their companies meter. Because there is no main switch I would not be able to isolate the supply to make good this connection myself.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Mmmm. I am not certain how that would work.

It would probably be best if you contact SSE to transfer the prepayment 'account' to them in your name and at the same time say you want the prepayment meter removed.
This will then be nothing to do with BG.

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for other advice I'll contact the meter people and make some enquiries. My main concern with doing this was that they might turn up, remove the meter and then not make good the connection to the downstairs consumer unit.

Fair enough.

After removal I will need the downstairs consimer unit feeding from the 'upstairs' (remember both are under the stairs next to each other) ...

I think I may have misunderstood. Are you saying that the 'upstairs CU' is actually downstairs, next to the downstairs one. If so, you can forget my comment about fuses (I though you were talking about a long cable run to a CU which was upstairs). The amount of work to 'consolidate' into one CU might then also be a lot less than I was thinking.

... meter which is billed by a seperate company. I am not sure if the person that removes the prepaid meter (british gas) will be willing to connect the normal meter (SSE) to the downstairs consimer unit, as its not their companies meter. Because there is no main switch I would not be able to isolate the supply to make good this connection myself.

Oh, that's a very messy situation! You may have to talk to both companies or, as EFLI has suggested, first get both supplies transferred to the same supplier, which would simplify things.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What am I missing?

Ignoring for a moment the issues of safe isolation, if the supply to the upstairs CU is moved so that it comes either off the tails from the downstairs meter, or from the downstairs CU, why is any transfer of anything from one supplier to another needed?

OR, if both CUs are close to each other then the circuits from the upstairs one can be moved to the downstairs CU; both CUs have a means to isolate the final circuits.

The OP has a metered supply from Supplier A and he's adding a few final circuits to it - no permission is needed for that. He has a prepaid meter from Supplier B, but are there any Ts'n'Cs with accounts like that which mandate a minimum use? Thought the whole point of them was no bills, everything is paid for via the card, so what are BG going to do if he just stops using it?

What can any company do if a customer just stops using electricity? Can they compel them to?


Dan - get an electrician to organise having the supply fuse pulled so that he can install an isolator, move the circuits, and then tell BG that you no longer need their meter. Or just leave it there if you're not fussed about the space it takes up.

 

[JohnW2]

What am I missing?

Probably nothing - a new pair of eyes often see things which others haven't!

Ignoring for a moment the issues of safe isolation, if the supply to the upstairs CU is moved so that it comes either off the tails from the downstairs meter, or from the downstairs CU, why is any transfer of anything from one supplier to another needed?

You've actually got that the wrong way around - it's the downstairs meter which is the pre-payment one. However, in analogy with what you say, the feed to the downstairs CU could be connected to the upstairs ('normal') meter without any involvement of any suppliers/DNOs or whatever (give or take the isolation issue) - leaving, as you go on to say, the downstairs meter (prepaid) sitting there, not connected to anything and doing nothing.

He has a prepaid meter from Supplier B, but are there any Ts'n'Cs with accounts like that which mandate a minimum use? Thought the whole point of them was no bills, everything is paid for via the card, so what are BG going to do if he just stops using it? What can any company do if a customer just stops using electricity? Can they compel them to?

I don't know the answers, but one obviously needs to know them. Do they not 'read' pre-payment meters, so that they can keep tabs on what is going on? If the only meter in an occupied house/flat was a pre-payment one, they presumable would 'take an interest' if the consumer suddenly appeared to be using (and paying for) little or no electricity? Whatever, as you say, the worst that is probably likely to happen is that 'they' would decide to remove the unused meter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

What am I missing?

Only that, I think, a single supplier would transfer the downstairs tails to the upstairs meter free of charge when discontinuing the prepayment meter.

I would not imagine BG would connect to SSE meter if only out of spite.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So ignore BG. Have an electrician put all of the circuits onto the SSE meter.

 

[JohnW2]

Only that, I think, a single supplier would transfer the downstairs tails to the upstairs meter free of charge when discontinuing the prepayment meter. ... I would not imagine BG would connect to SSE meter if only out of spite.

Yes, but, as BAS has suggested, why involve either BG or SSE at all? Get the DNO to pull the fuse, then an electrician can install an isolator and make all the other required changes, leaving BG's prepayment meter (with its tails presumably connected to a Henley, and nothing else) sitting there doing nothing unless/until BG decide they want to do something about it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ok - if you'd rather pay and not have it all done in one fell swoop(ish).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Pay what which he wouldn't have to anyway?

At some point he is going to have to pay to have the isolator installed. If BG say they want paying to have their unused kit removed then unless he's desperate for the wall space he can say "on your bike, I'll just leave it there".

 

[DanDIY]

Hi, Thanks for further replies.

ban-all-sheds is correct. I think if the prepaid meter was disconnected then it could just sit there. I am not desperate for the wall space.

I was planning on doing some of the work myself (moving the circuits from one CU to another etc - I have all of the live and dead test equipment, L2&3 C&G in electrical installation and am planning on getting the whole lot signed off by building control, but I am not a practicing electrician)

I wouldnt want to be pulling the fuses myself or working live so I'd rather do this with the aid of a proper isolator, hence me asking about this. Am I correct in thinking that the distribution company are responsible for the isolator? Looking at the schematic in my OSG they are fitted after the meter. So if I booked the distribution company to come and fit an isolator would they have to do both sets of meter tails? I wonder if they'd charge twice

As far as I know the prepaid meter is 'read' when you take the dongle to the shop to credit it with some money. they upload the latest tarif, which then updates the meter when you plug in. Its a bit more advanced than a 50p meter!

 

[JohnW2]

I wouldnt want to be pulling the fuses myself or working live so I'd rather do this with the aid of a proper isolator, hence me asking about this. Am I correct in thinking that the distribution company are responsible for the isolator? Looking at the schematic in my OSG they are fitted after the meter. So if I booked the distribution company to come and fit an isolator would they have to do both sets of meter tails? I wonder if they'd charge twice

I don't think DNOs have any interest beyond the cutout - its the 'meter operator', or whatever they call them, that you'd want - and since they are accessed via (and presumably subcontracted by) the 'supplier' (BG or SSE in your case), I doubt that they'd even dream of fitting an isolator to the meter of a company which hadn't ' 'sent them'.

On a slightly different interpretation of what your're saying, I imagine that what you want is a single isolator connected to the meter (the one you're keeping) with the output from that (at least temporarily) being split to supply the two CUs.

Kind Regards, John