Unsatisfactory work

[JohnW2]

Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is stupid.

Do you really believe that you have answered the OP's question in a useful fashion?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EddieM]

Do you really believe that you have answered the OP's question in a useful fashion?

Kind Regards, John

Yes.

 

[JohnW2]

Do you really believe that you have answered the OP's question in a useful fashion?

Yes.

I'll leave her to be the judge of that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[akist]

How can an electrician detect a hazardous installation and patented leaks and then leave the premises without some form of a repair?

 

[JohnW2]

How can an electrician detect a hazardous installation and patented leaks and then leave the premises without some form of a repair?

That's what I just asked. Maybe he offered, and the offer was declined - or maybe he is the one who is comingf back on Monday (that being the earliest he could do it), or .... ? Only the OP can tell us.

Kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

Whatever the situation with the electrician who detected the fault, legally if he found the fault but could not/would not fix it at that particular time, then he should have disconnected the particular circuit until it has been rectified.
Whist the home owner may be liable if someone is hurt in their home, especially if they know there is a fault with something, the person who installed the circuit was originally accountable but now a second electrician has found it, has not repaired it and has not 'made it safe', he now becomes accountable.

My advice to the owner at this time would be to identify which fuse/mcb etc feeds that area and to switch it off. Also put a note on the consumer unit stating not to turn it back on till it has been rectified.

 

[JohnW2]

... but now a second electrician has found it, has not repaired it and has not 'made it safe', he now becomes accountable. .... My advice to the owner at this time would be to identify which fuse/mcb etc feeds that area and to switch it off. Also put a note on the consumer unit stating not to turn it back on till it has been rectified.

To be fair, we do not have all the facts. For example, we have not been told that the 'second electrician' did not 'make it safe' in some way (until the repair on Monday).

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

hi
I bought a flat a couple of years ago and recently my son was getting electric shocks on the cooker, metal kettle and sink top if he touched two at once. He thought wrongly that it was static but the shocks became worse. I also got a shock touching two appliances at once.

No problem there, Susi1 has done the right thing.

Got an electrician to check it over and he informed me that 230volts were being conducted between the appliances if touched similtaneously.
He checked the fuse box and discovered that it hadnt been earthed.

Again no problem

We had electrician put in new plug points and do the electrics on a newly installed kitchen.
He clearly had not checked his work as I was told that if he had done so he would have discovered the fact that it wasnt earthed.

How do you know it was not earthed when that work was done. Your only guessing, I have found where an earth has been broken, and when it has been removed due to change in the water supply pipes. But had this been the case, it would have been highlighted when the new occupiers (you) moved into the home and had the EICR (electrical installation condition report) done, as required with change of occupant.

My concern is that it was a fatality waiting to happen.

Who is accountable for this.

Thank you.

Fact you say "was" I assume now corrected? And as to whom is accountable this account of the death of Emma Shaw shows how it is not always as cut and dried as you think. In that case the plaster, plumber, electrician, electricians mate, and the foreman all made errors, however the court found the foreman to blame, even though he had never been to the home.

So we don't know what caused the loss of the earth, and really it is not just loss of earth, we also have a loss of bonding, and two faulty appliances, and lack of RCD protection.

So starting at the beginning, did the lawyer who helped you buy the house advise you an EICR should be completed? Or of course anyone else when buying the house? If so, and you didn't get it done, then clearly your fault. If not then is the lawyer responsible for not advising you?

Next is the "electrician" who did the kitchen work, was he actually an electrician? as we see from Emma Shaw if he was an electrician mate then the responsibility would be directed at the person telling him to do the work. Could be kitchen fitters or you? Or he may have mislead you, then it's him, he would have needed to raise paperwork to say all had been tested, if paper work not raised then job not complete, and if raised unlikely he would miss no earth.

I had a wet room fitted, the "electrician" did seem suspect, arriving with no test equipment, however he did a temporary job, promising to return. It seems the bathroom firm did not pay him, so he refused to return, so in the end I completed the job. So it could be the same, if the kitchen firm fell out with the electrician he could have possibly never completed the work. Only when you get the minor works, or installation certificate and if required completion or compliance certificate can you say it was finished.

I assume the final electrician did issue certificates to say what he has done, with test results?

So yes working out who the court would see as reasonable is not easy. Returning to wet room, when the bathroom fitters ran off and we took over, I had assumed they had informed the local authority building control (LABC) so I went into the council offices and said I was going to take over the job, and was asked what job, no one has applied for permission, and we were told it was up to the owner to apply, often builders do it for the owners, but the owner is responsible to ensure they do.

In England for a kitchen it is no longer required, but in Wales it is.

Had I realised the builder had not told the council I would not have contacted them, and just done the work, but I thought it was until that point all done correctly, however there was a list of faults including a lintel not supported on one end, which the LABC inspector missed.

 

[JohnW2]

.... Fact you say "was" I assume now corrected? ...

It seems not ...

Have electrician coming to sort out earthing problem on Monday.....

However, we haven't been told whether or not the person who detected the 'earthing problem' did anything to 'make things safe' until Monday.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Have electrician coming to sort out earthing problem on Monday.....
The problem will be locating the original electrician and speaking to second electrician that did the kitchen work. I believed he was properly qualified however i never checked his certification.....i didnt know to do that.

As said Earthing and Bonding are not the same, I hope he never left without either fixing or isolating sockets not bonded?

However some times one does need to use common sense. In theory if you can't complete the work, one needs to arrange for alternative accommodation until completed, however it does not say who has to pay for it!

I have seen many times where an electrician has said sorry I must switch this off, if you want to switch it back on I can't stop you, but please wait until I have gone.

 

[susi1]

Thank you all for your input.. I need to keep rereading the posts to get it into my head. The electrician who came yesterday said he could not complete the work and would return on monday. He told my son that he could only use one plug point that had been earthed.
I clearly have no clue about electrics but am trying to understand.
He said he would have to earth the junction box.
This is making me really nervous.

 

[JohnW2]

The electrician who came yesterday said he could not complete the work and would return on monday. He told my son that he could only use one plug point that had been earthed.

Thank you - that clarifies matters.

This is making me really nervous.

This electrician clearly has your safety in mind. Provided you do not use any of the sockets which he has told you not to use, there should be nothing to be nervous about - and it's not long until Monday, when everything will hopefully be sorted out, and made safe.

Kind Regards, John

 

[akist]

It looks like a functioning RCD would have prevented all these persistent, small electrocutions?

Edit: I take it back, if the leaks are smaller than tripping the RCD but still felt by touch.

 

[JohnW2]

It looks like a functioning RCD would have prevented all these persistent, small electrocutions? Edit: I take it back, if the leaks are smaller than tripping the RCD but still felt by touch.

Indeed - and that's another thing we don't really know about....

.... these 'electric shocks' which the OP's son has experienced may, in fact, only be (generally 'harmless') 'tingles' (and far too small to trip an RCD). Indeed, unless there are faults in any appliances/equipment (as well as the earthing problem), that's probably the most likely situation.

Kind Regards, John

 

[susi1]

Thank you John....
When electrician measured the voltage between the appliances it read 230 volts..would that not trip the RCD.