Using a standard shower pump for the whole house

[j007]

I have a gravity fed system which consists of a cold water storage tank in the loft and a hot water tank on the ground floor in an airing cupboard.

The hot water pressure on the ground floor in the kitchen and toilet is decent, which is expected as the water has a longer drop from the loft. On the second floor the hot water pressure in the bathroom (basin and bath taps) is okay and acceptable (just about!). The problem I am having is poor hot water pressure for the shower, which is connected to the bath mixer tap.

I have purchased a standard single Stuart Turner 2.0 bar pump (https://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/product/showermate-eco-s2-0-bar-single-46503) which I was originally going to put under the bath to improve the shower pressure. However, with the electrical wiring seeming like a long and complicated job, I was wondering if it is possible to fit this exact pump in the ground floor airing cupboard, besides the hot water tank?

I realise that this pump isn’t made for the whole house and is really only ideal for the shower but with there being a decent pressure already elsewhere, what is the worse that can happen? If multiple outlets are open, would the lowest possible pressure I’d get be what I would get without the pump? If this is the case then this may not be a bad option as I’d just need to ensure that multiple outlets are not open only when the shower is in use. What do you guys and girls reckon?

 

[FiremanT]

Funnily enough, I went have a look at my sister in laws shower last night. She had a booster pump fitted by a local plumber. She mentioned a few weeks ago that it has not working consistently for a few weeks, and is waiting fir the guy who fitted it to return. I have been cards in fr over 6 years and try not to get involved in wet work privately, especially for family and friends.

Anyway, last night I discovered that the pump was single pump designed for a single outlet, as you are looking at, but is only 1.5bar, So a similar situation to yours. However the builders had fitted the shower supply off the tee that comes from the top of the cylinder, and to which the open vent is attached. The other hit water services are connected to an Essex flange at the side of the cylinder. I am assuming that that us the case as it is only 15mm from the tee, and 22 off the flange (I should have ran hit taps to determine that my assumptions were correct). For some reason that I cannot fathom, the installer has cut the 22mm, and capped the flange. He then has connected the 22mm byway if a tee on to his new 15mm from pump to the existing 15mm. So whereas he could have done it just to the shower, he has converted it to "whole house". He MAY have done it as they also have a shower if the bath taps, so this arrangement obviously improves the over bath shower.

It all worked for for 2 1/2 years, then the pump is nackered. It may be a poor pump, maybe overworked, or may be worn due to cavitation caused by air ingress from the dodgy pipework. I am going back tonight to do a quick swap, like for like, and will sort out plumbing later when I have more time.

So, really, the worst that can happen, as far as I can see, is that the pump may prematurely die, and the warranty wont cover it

 

[j007]

So if multiple outlets were open then the worst pressure I would see would be the current pressure without the pump?

 

[Exedon]

Has your bath shower mixer got a tank feed cold or mains?
If its on mains pumping the hot for the whole house can be a transformation.
Hot feed to pump needs to be via a flange of some type.
We use warix flanges but S type or similar ok.
Stuart turner monsoon are our pump of choice if doing whole house match pump pressure to mains pressure.

 

[j007]

Has your bath shower mixer got a tank feed cold or mains?
If its on mains pumping the hot for the whole house can be a transformation.
Hot feed to pump needs to be via a flange of some type.
We use warix flanges but S type or similar ok.
Stuart turner monsoon are our pump of choice if doing whole house match pump pressure to mains pressure.

The cold is from mains which is a pretty good pressure, just need the hot side (in particular the shower) to be better.

I know I need a flange if I am pumping the whole house but do I need one if the pump will be used just for the shower and placed under the bath tub?

 

[Exedon]

Not good practice to install the pump you have anywhere but next to cylinder feed via a flange.
Putting it under bath good chance of air ingress and constant cavitation.

 

[j007]

Not good practice to install the pump you have anywhere but next to cylinder feed via a flange.
Putting it under bath good chance of air ingress and constant cavitation.

So technically the pump will always be for the whole house then? If this is the recommended approach then I’m not sure why the manufacturers give 15mm hoses then as the cylinder feed will have 22mm pipes.

 

[FiremanT]

So technically the pump will always be for the whole house then? If this is the recommended approach then I’m not sure why the manufacturers give 15mm hoses then as the cylinder feed will have 22mm pipes.

No, he means it should be plumbed into the shower and sited near the cylinder . The HW shower pipe will (normally) be a 15mm pipe coming of the cylinder. The pump interiors that pipe

 

[FiremanT]

Re my earlier post last night. I nipped in tonight to fit the new one. The 15mm off the Tee is to the fHW services , the 22 flange and tube is to one mixer!

I am guessing this was a mistake by the builder, and why the guy who fitted the pump 2.5 years did what he did. I know off, but not personally, the guy who did it, and gave never heard anything bad about him.

 

[j007]

No, he means it should be plumbed into the shower and sited near the cylinder . The HW shower pipe will (normally) be a 15mm pipe coming of the cylinder. The pump interiors that pipe

Hmmm I was under the impression that the shower pipe was not a standalone pipe from the cylinder . I’ll need to look into this further

 

[FiremanT]

Done properly, the shower will have a dedicated feed for cold from the CWST, and the hot from the cylinder

 

[j007]

Done properly, the shower will have a dedicated feed for cold from the CWST, and the hot from the cylinder

I am currently away but will confirm this soon. So are you saying that my hot water cylinder should have 2 pipes coming out of it? One 15mm for the shower and one 22mm for the rest of the house?

 

[FiremanT]

Yes.
It can be an Essex flange on the side of the cylinder or a Surrey or Sussex ( TBH, I have always called this is Sussex flange, but searching for an image brings up Surrey - I confess that I do not know the difference, but no doubt someone wil elucidate) flange which replaces the normal outlet at the top of the cylinder

 

[TimboTwo]

Yes.
It can be an Essex flange on the side of the cylinder or a Surrey or Sussex ( TBH, I have always called this is Sussex flange, but searching for an image brings up Surrey - I confess that I do not know the difference, but no doubt someone wil elucidate) flange which replaces the normal outlet at the top of the cylinder

View attachment 261511

Never known it to be called Sussex flange - and I live there. Been in the trade nearly 40 years and always heard it called Surrey flange.

 

[FiremanT]

Never known it to be called Sussex flange - and I live there. Been in the trade nearly 40 years and always heard it called Surrey flange.

Maybe my mind made up "Sussex" (conflating "Essex" and "Surrey"), due to my age and the fact that I have had nothing to do with such things for decades!