Volt Drop

I have just let it do an online update, and I now get the below: 150m, 70amp, forcing 25mm.
Single Phase + N: 16.79v (assumes 2 core SWA)
Three Phase: 8.45v (assumes 3 core SWA)
Three Phase + N: 8.45v (assumes 4 core SWA)
Right. I presume that the 3-phase ones assume a balanced load of 70A per phase (hence zero neutral current).

As I said at the very start of the thread, those are roughly the results I would expect IF the VD they are quoting for 3-phase is the drop in the phase-neutral voltage (for each phase). As you demonstrated in your manual calculation, if one uses the BGB's figure of 1.5 mV/A/m (for combined drop of L and N in a single-phase circuit), then the figures one gets are 15.75V and 7.875V (rather than 16.9V and 8.45V that your software is producing). It looks as if your software may, for some reason, be using ~1.6 mV/A/m, in which case manual calculations would give results almost the same as the software.
I have always sized three phase sub-mains as if they were single phase. I was always taught this, and can recall doing some calcs on site during an NIC inspection to determine volt drop too. Now not too sure what I will do when I need to calc another :rolleyes:
As has been discussed, it depends crucially on the balance of the loading. If you have perfectly balanced 3-phase (hence zero neutral current, even if there is a neutral), then the voltage drop (in terms of neutral-phase voltage at load end) for a current of xA per phase will be half of that for a current of xA in single phase. At the other extreme, if you put all xA down one phase of a 3-phase cable (so that xA also flows through neutral), the VD will be the same as for a single phase situation (indeed, it effectively is single-shase). Your design calculations therefore presumably have to be on the basis of the estimated worst possible degree of phase imbalance,given knowledge of what the circuit will be supplying. If it is only supplying 3-phase loads (machines, motors etc.), then I imagine that the load will never be significantly unbalanced, so you could presumably reasonably use the 'low' VD figure. However, if you have single-phase loads/circuits connected to individual phases, then you move closer to the situation of potential serious unbalance, hence the higher (double) VD figure.

The suggestion that the BGB allows a 20V VD for 3-phase, whilst true in one sense, is (probably, dependent on the intent of the BGB!) potentially misleading, since that relates to the between-phases voltage (which we often don't think in terms of, nor calculate in terms of). In a balanced situation, an 11.5V drop along each of the phase conductors represents a VD of 5% (11.5/230), hence at the limit of what the BGB allows. Another way of looking at that (balanced load) phase-neutral drop of 11.5V is to call it a ~19.9V (11.5 * √3) drop in phase-phase voltage - again ~5% (19.9/400) [the only reason those figures are not perfect is because 230V P-N actually corresponds to 398.37V P-P, not exactly the 400V we usually assume)] So, the 5% VD limit can be looked at as 11.5V P-N or 20V P-P

Does any of that help?

Kind Regards, John
 
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I've just been re-united with my BGB and they seem to support what I was speculating in my exchanges with EFLI last night. Both 4D2B (non-armoured) and 4D4B (armoured) give the same figures for 25mm² cable (both for 70° C operating temp), namely:

2-core single phase: r=1.75, x=0.170, z=1.75 mV/A/m
3/4-core 3-phase: r=1.50, x=0.145, z=1.50 mV/A/m

There is obvioulsy no way that the resistance or impedance of a length of 25mm² conductor at a certain operating temperature is going to be any different depending oin whether there are two or 3/4 such conductors brought together into a cable. The difference in quoted figures therefore must relate to the fact that they result in different things being calculated, not that the resistance/impedance differs in the two situations.

It is 'obvious' what is being calculated (using the BGB 1.75 figure) in the single-phase situation - namely the drop in phase-neutral voltage. The 3-phase figure in BGB of 1.5 mV/A/m is almost exactly 86.6% [i.e. (√3)/2] of 1.75 mV/A/m. This strongly suggests that what I wrote last night was probably correct. Per the explanation I gave last night, if one uses 1.5 mV/A/m [i.e. 1.75 * (3√) / 2], what one is calculating is (for a balanced 3-phase load) the VD in terms of the between-phases voltage.

Hence, in summary, using the BGB figures, one will (inevitably) calculate the phase-neutral VD for single-phase, but the phase-phase voltage drop for 3-phase. If one used the half of the 1.75 mV/A/m figure (to give a figure 'per conductor') for 3-phase, one would get the phase-neutral VD. In contrast, Lectrician's software appears to be calculating the phase-neutral VD for balanced 3-phase, using (for some reason) a figure of around 1.6 mV/A/m.

As I said yesterday, the software's manual really ought to explain what it is calculating, and how.

Kind Regards, John
 
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using (for some reason) a figure of around 1.6 mV/A/m.
The mean of 1.5 & 1.75 is around 1.6. Just saying.....
True. Extending that, and given that, as we've seen 1.75 is almost exactly 1.5 * [(√3)/2], a little algebra tells us that the mean of 1.5 and 1.75 can be roughly expressed as:

1.75 * [{(√3) + 2}/4]

(which evaluates to about 1.63) ... but I'm not sure that enlightens us very much, either :)

Kind Regards, John
 

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