Was this a rip-off?

[misterdubya]

That's correct.

The boiler was in the same place as the previous Potterton Diplomat, but obviously wall hung. So only a standard flue was required. The only pipe work changes were to connect the new boiler up.

No change to the HW cylinder, pump or motorized valve

Vaillant 428 with flue and clock £900 (from internet)
Chemicals say £50
Copper pipe etc say £100
Wireless thermostat £100
2 TRVs £50 (rest of house already done)

Total Materials = £1200

That leaves £3,300 for labour over 3½ days - approx £1000 per day! I don't know how many men were on the job, but it didn't need more than two. So that's £500 per man per day. Assuming an 8 hour day, that £62.50 per hour.

Why didn't he get three quotes?

1. His daughter had used the same firm when she had her boiler replaced and was pleased with them.

2. He can easily afford the expenditure.

By the way, the valve didn't need replacing - it was just the motor which had gone. That would explain the £100 price. The £400 price presumably included a drain down and fresh inhibitor

Read more: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=270296&start=15#ixzz1J3SLtzgT[/QUOTE]

Why did you not divulge this info in the original post OP?

You have made yourself look a bit stupid in my opinion as we give advise based on facts - most of which you have decided to hide from us.... until now.
You could have saved 3 pages of scenarios if you had been honest from the outset.

Mr.W.

 

[misterdubya]

So he goes back to the firm who had installed and maintained the old Potterton, who send a man the next day with valve. Cost? Just over £100.

So more lies . He didnt replace any valve did he? You being very 'fragrant' with what you have posted, and what happened. I'll do a synchron for £75 all in seeing as they cost no more than £7.50 and can be done in 30 minutes. 45 minutes if the valve faces backwards.

Mr. W.

 

[D_Hailsham]

It would be unusual not to have to upgrade the gas supply from the meter

But if the new boiler has the same output as the old one and is much more efficient, then the gas flow rate will be lower. So, if the gas pipe was suitable for the old boiler, why would it suddenly be unsuitable for the new boiler?

Vaillant 428 with flue and clock £900 (from internet)

I NEVER use internet. If it gets lost, it will be a nightmare. They don't recognise as lost until 7-10 days etc. Support "proper" business.

I wasn't saying that the customer bought the boiler from the internet. That's just the price I obtained when I did a quick search. I expect the installer paid much less than £900.

Same with my other prices, they were just (generous?) estimates of what the materials would cost.

assuming your figures are accurate, that is not a TOTAL rip off. Also what about the time spent surveying, ordering and collecting materials etc.

I agree there are overheads which have to be taken into account. I didn't say it was a total rip-off, just getting some opinions. You seem to be suggesting that the job was probably over-priced.

Based on your claimed "profit"

I didn't make any claim about the profit margin, just calculated the approximate hourly rate charged out by the firm.That rate includes overheads and profit, so I doubt very much if the installers were being paid much more than £20 per hour.

It seems to me that very few installers really cost out their jobs in detail or, if they do, they then add a big margin on the assumption that the customer will try to negotiate a lower price. Just like the double glazing salesman etc.

PS I wasn't expecting anyone to say that it was a rip-off, completely out of order etc and that the installers should be put against the wall and shot.

 

[bengasman]

It would be unusual not to have to upgrade the gas supply from the meter

But if the new boiler has the same output as the old one and is much more efficient, then the gas flow rate will be lower. So, if the gas pipe was suitable for the old boiler, why would it suddenly be unsuitable for the new boiler?

Blimey, I would have thought you understood that issue by now, you've been googling, and reading the forum long enough. There have been more posts on the subject than I've had hot dinners.

Inlet burner pressure specs have gone up.
Grid pressures have gone down.
Service pipes corrode and block.
Last but not least: millions of existing installations were never up to spec in the first place; just because an installation was there, doesn't mean it was installed properly.

 

[namsag]

DHailsham.
Title of thread was . Is this a rip off.
then you say your not expectin anyone to say it was.
why ask then.

Its simple no one can justify over 3k profit on a 2 day job no matter what overheads they try and bring into it.
Its funny whenever someone asks about a price from BG on here the pros are all on saying they are rip off merchants but if its an independent then they get all up and arms about how dare someone question the price.

Would any of the guys pay a chippy 3k to fit a kitchen in there house for 2 days or a sparky to rewire it NOPE they wouldn`t.

 

[namsag]

Excellent point Ben

 

[mehran]

does not matter how you slice up the costs.

if you are given a quote and are free to seek out another but choose not too then it is can't be a rip off.

 

[mehran]

btw bg rip people of because they lie, make promise they cant keep, use fear tactics and pray on vulnerable people.

oh and occasionally kill people...

 

[namsag]

Think you will find independants have done far more rip offs hence programmes like rogue traders and have killed far more people than BG ever have or ever will.

And of course a job can be a rip off even if a customer accepts a quote because the person giving that quote can be using a customers naivety to charge what they want or tell them anything they think they will believe.

Its called people trusting people

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Well I have said for years that "everything" in this country wants looking at, ie, how come to go to court you have to have pay a solicitor AND a lawyer, going back over 30 years ago a friend of mine went to court over wrongful arrest, the judge *******ed the police for their incompetence and wasting court time over the case, friend OBVIOUSLY won, however the judge wouldn't award him costs, it was £1500 for 1 hour for the lawyer WTF, fekkin £1500.00 per hour, God knows how much it will be now, just one example, so before we go for the easy meat all the time, plumbers garages builders etc, lets get started with a few higher ups, how much do architects get, how much do aircraft engineers get including holidays pension Denplan bupa etc, what about footballers, obscene amounts of money, which all comes from joe public one way or another, we don't need to go into bankers as it's a given they have ripped us all off for years, all this attitude of plumbers ripping people off all the time is wearing a bit thin, I'm seriously thinking of jacking this forum in, not that I will be missed, but ****in fed up of questions of how much this how much that, was I ripped off, oh I can do it cheaper, even though you haven't seen the job FFS, forum's full of cheapskate ******s.