What do you reckon to my chances?

[AdamW]

Back in May, I noticed that one of rear brakes (drums) was making a sound like the pad wasn't making contact square with the drum. So, I took it along to a recommended independent, and had the guys replace the shoes and set up the brakes. Picked it up, £90ish, drove like a dream. Seriously, the feel on the brakes was superb, better than I have felt in ANY car, EVER! And the handbrake worked wonderfully.

In July, I took it for it's 3 year service at Vauxhall. I picked the car up, and noticed the brake feel wasn't so good, and the handbrake had to be pulled up a lot further than before. I put it down to being reset to "manufacturer's specs" and drove off.

However, today I was driving somewhere with hills. Well, slight inclines. I found that even with the handbrake pulled right up to my armpit the car would roll back on the shallowest of slopes. It was not good, seeing as I had to queue in a multi-storey carpark!

Anyway, I am planning to take it back to Vauxhall and explain how I only noticed how bad it was now because I drive almost exclusively on level ground. Get them to sort out the problem, and hopefully spanner-slap the monkey who did the brakes.

What do you reckon my chances are as to getting them to sort out this balls-up without additional cost? Definitely worth trying, seeing as I get it serviced there.

 

[breezer]

good luck., it may only need the brake cable adjusting?

do you know the old trick of when parking on a slope park in gear, oposite to that of which you would go, so if pointing down , park in reverse

 

[david and julie]

Adam.. on my second Astra. This ones a 1.7 cdti estate, 04 reg (old shape) 8000 miles.

I can honestly say just like my previous one (Y reg estate) the handbrake is sh**e, I just thing they have an inherent fault, because the lever just never feels right. It never feels as if its off properly.

I think you are probably right what you are saying, however, are the main agents doing anything wrong by adjusting to manufacturers spec, or the independant. Even though it seemed better? Have Vauxhall got it wrong cos mines never been touched.

 

[AdamW]

No, this is definitely far beyond just a bad design. I didn't notice at first because my area is very flat (never need to do hill starts ever) yet today driving somewhere with even slight slopes was a mission.

I counted 13 clicks on the ratchet, the handle was up as high as it would go, and would still roll backwards. So I tried pulling away, up a hill, with the handbrake on full and I could! Definitely not right. Plus pulling the handle that high made me keep elbowing a mate in the passenger seat

I suspect when they did the 3-year service they inspected the wear on the brake shoes, but didn't adjust the drums properly when they put them back together. The pedal has far too much travel before the brakes apply. Emergency stops are doable, but the extra pedal travel probably increases stopping distance by a few feet.

I can't believe I put it down to "manufacturers settings"... The brakes were never like that when I got it! I'm kicking myself now.

If they won't fix it free I will take it to the independent and pay him to do it: I only get it serviced at Vauxhall in a vague hope of making it easier to sell later on (FSH etc.). This won't count towards that, so I would rather get the good mechanic to fix it.

 

[david and julie]

I agree that they have not been adjusted properly.

Your car is fitted with auto adjusting rear brakes. Whenever you take the drums off you would also undo the adjusters off, to enable you to get the drum back on afterwards.

However they are supposed to wind them on a bit before putting the drums back on. It sounds as if they haven't done this and the adjusters are jammed in the off position(for want of a better description).

They will have to take the drums off and wind them on a bit to help the adjusters.

Your foot brake is down (and handbrake up) because the liners are too far from the drums.

They may say the adjusters are seized to wriggle out of it, but they shouldn't really be.

 

[AdamW]

They will have to take the drums off and wind them on a bit to help the adjusters.

I'm glad you said this. A year or two ago my ex's dad (a car mechanic) said that to adjust a handbrake properly you need to pay attention to the auto-adjusters. He even showed me how (although I am loathe to work on such a critical part as brakes). But a few people at work are saying "Nahhh, just tighten up the cable". I obviously decided that a good mechanic with 35 years experience would probably know a bit more than people who had changed spark plugs a few times

The fact the pedal feel is also affected would suggest that the rear brakes aren't making contact at all.

I am seriously considering making a couple of wooden chocks for the meantime, I had to try 3 different spaces in Sainsbury's today before I found one flat enough, and far enough away that I wouldn't roll into anyone! Was slightly pointed towards a kerb too, so that would have stopped it. But definitely not a good (or safe) state of affairs.

 

[pipme]

I always park car gears set in reverse .. it is the lowest gear ratio and hence easy for engine to turn wheels but difficult, (not impossible) for wheels to turn engine.
Relate to bicycle, look at the chainwheels ... small at front, large at rear = easy to pedal (lots more turns really) Swap that, large at front small at rear = hard to pedal (less turns .. goes further per ped-rev) - hokay ?

If your car is hit, hard, front or rear whilst parked ... the potentially liable Insurance company may not like the 'in gear' business... possible damage to gearbox etc ... I have heard that they make a fuss about it, nothing more really. .. Of course any 'final drive damage' may only show up later, burden of proof then falls upon the owner, not easy .... Just food for thought.

Adam, having large 'plates of meat', as you have related elsewhere, have you tried to 'heel and toe' ? 'Tis possible with standard pedals .. heel on brake, toe(ish) on accelerator .. get it right and you'll be able to drive without handbrake .. which is not advisable ... But useful in the old survival stakes !!

Back to Vauxhall ASAP and explain is the best bet, you are a customer after all .. Hand / rear brake setups can be quirky to say the least. .. In truth if they cannot get it right then who can ?

P

 

[AdamW]

Better than heel/toe, I can use the brake and accelerator at the same time with my foot straight! They are rather broad, and this actually has caused problems driving hire cars in the past: try to brake sharply and end up pressing the throttle at the same time Gets you some funny looks stopping at traffic lights too.

I will head over to Vauxhell this lunchtime if I can, seeing as I have spent £800 there in the last 3 years I would hope they will be only too happy to rectify a problem for such a loyal customer. If I have any trouble I might play the "I was impressed with your service until now, I was considering trading in for the new 3-door Astra, but I am not so sure anymore." card.

 

[david and julie]

You could tell them that you understand how the adjusters work and what you think they got wrong.

 

[AdamW]

Now this is getting strange.

I took it to Vauxhall at lunch, explained how the brakes were fine when I dropped it off, and rubbish when I picked it up, and how I only noticed recently because I do in fact only ever park on totally flat ground (at home and at work). Their mechanic offered to adjust the cable, but I said "oooh, I think it is the auto-adjusters need winding on". Fair enough, he took it in for half an hour.

When he brought it back he said that the adjusters were indeed set so that the pads were barely even touching the drum, let alone exerting pressure.

However, they claimed that they do not touched the brakes on the third service unless the car has done 40K. I said that was strange, because the brakes were fine when I dropped it in but bad when I picked it up. They claimed that even so, the car wouldn't have left the garage with the handbrake up by my armpit as they would have noticed it and informed me.

They got out the paperwork from that service, and it said under rear brakes "not inspected". It came down to their word against mine, and I can't prove the brakes were like that when I picked it up so long ago. I asked how the brakes could have wound themselves down so far since July,

So in the end, it cost me £44 in labour. A lesson in why you should always complain about any miniscule details when you have your car serviced. Because customer loyalty doesn't appear to be worth anything when you are a main dealer. The brakes now feel great, but on the way back I tried an emergency stop and it pulled slightly to the left (the front left wheel locked up too). Will do more checking just in case it was the road surface.

So, assuming that they are indeed correct (why would they do unnecessary labour?) then I feel I should inform Vauxhall of a dangerous defect in their brakes, because why else would an auto-adjuster wind BACKWARDS? Or maybe inform whatever government department now gives out the wrist-slapping for dangerously-designed cars?

Cunch of bunts.

 

[david and julie]

I think you've just been had over Adam.

As you know I also have an Astra the same as yours, except mines a diesel.

I have just read my service book which I presume is the same as yours(as regards brakes).

On page 12 item 18 it clearly says parking brake check/adjust every 4 years or 40K miles, no problem.

However on the same page item 20 says front/rear brakes-check visually every 2 years. How is a visual inspection carried out with the drums on?, you can't see anything with the drums on and if they did do the inspection why wasn't the fault picked up? Surely this was a 2 yearly service if it is a 3 years old. (first one at a year)

Some vehicles do have inspection holes on the backplate, but this only shows lining thickness. It is not for a visual inspection.

It annoys me because not only will they not hold their hands up and admit a mistake, they charge you for it too.

I would take this up with manager and ask for a refund explaining politely why they are wrong, and that if need be, you will take it up with Vauxhall.

The adjusters can only be wound off with the drum off they can't come off in use.

 

[AdamW]

The first thing they did when I started questioning this was get the manager, he said that because it was a 3 year service, at 27k miles, they wouldn't have touched the brakes, and it even said on the sheet that they hadn't done anything to the brakes.

Which makes this a mystery... I am in no doubt that they did something that resulted in my brakes going sloppy, as it was a step change from when I dropped it off to when I picked it up. However why would they do it if isn't part of the service?

I am wondering if maybe someone started work on the wrong car (i.e. my car), then realising my mistake put it back in a hurry. Or maybe (although I can't say this is likely) they were working near some other brake component and knocked something. The mechanic today didn't mention if the adjusters appeared to have failed in any way, by his account they were fine, just needed winding on. And surely they wouldn't BOTH fail. And without failing, why would they BOTH have ran backwards? It doesn't add up.

I thought maybe they inspected the brake linings during the MoT which they did before I picked up the car, however they have told me that the MoT handbrake test is literally just pull the handbrake on and check it has some sort of effect on preventing the car from rolling.

I think my next step really is to speak to Vauxhall themselves, as I have already spoken to the manager at the dealers. It's a real shame as I absolutely love the Astra, it does everything so well... yet just a small matter of £44 to have their incompetence put right sucks.

 

[AdamW]

Just a thought, it said on the service sheet that they had inspected the front brakes on the 3-year service (I think it did, need to check).

Could working on the front brakes but the rear brakes out of balance sufficiently to cause this problem?

 

[david and julie]

Adam I have just altered my post to make it clearer will you re-read it please.

 

[david and julie]

We keep missing each others posts.

Right, the front brakes being discs can be inspected without removing anything except the wheels. You do not alter or adjust anything and they will not cause the problems you have.

To do a proper inspection of the rear you need to take the drums off because as I said you can't see anything otherwise.

Bearing in mind what I said earlier why would they do the front and not the back? they should do all or none.

They are giving you a load of waffle, you could ask Vauxhall or are you in the AA, RAC etc?