What do you reckon to my chances?

[AdamW]

Ah, so they definitely can't come unwound without taking the drums off. Thought as much!

I am in the RAC: I will have a look around their website, they must have some kind of "looking out for motorists who have been screwed over by a garage" team.

Looking on the back of the invoice for today, it says "The Company warrants its work free from defects for a period of 3 months or 3000 miles whichever occurs sooner, from the date of completion of the work." I have a feeling it is now 3 months and 3 weeks since the work. Bu**er. But it is definitely far less than 3000 miles.

 

[pipme]

Adam .. number one calm down.

Think this through ... rear brakes have independent adjusters ie each side is a seperate entity with regard to 'auto-adjusters' .. If one side was not adjusting .. 'whole car veers to one side' under imbalanced rear braking, as opposed to car 'diving' to one side with front brake problem however that sounds, it is noticeable when it happens.
Thus how can both adjusters loosen off together - without interference ? Surely cannot happen - so they were both manually wound back enough - to enable drum removal - then more, to allow new shoes clearing drums ... I am thinking there may be a kind of 'finger' which operates the auto adjust - if this were moved to one side - no auto adjust !!

I am surprised at all this .. surely if the 'auto-adjuster' has not been disabled, then it 'auto's' itself upon repeated brake application until the correct clearance is achieved, that is what these devices are all about .. (now you perhaps beginning to see why we like our rear discs .. we were brought up on drums )

Ooooer ! You know what I am thinking ? What if independent mob did not do the job correctly ... bit like electrics .. just because it works doesn't mean it is correct.
Let us say they did not set auto adjusters correctly.. took up the remaining play on handbrake cable adjustment ... Adam does, as he has mentioned, about 7K miles p/a not many really, around 4 months ago brakes relined .. probably not Vaux bits (uh oh).. In for Vaux service, ok so they missed out the drum removal (taking a low mileage flyer) adjusted handbrake cable to the book ... maybe would not notice the difference in efficiency as Adam would ... a little catalogue of errors building up here - possibly.

May be brakes have not actually been adjusting since way back in May .. could happen easily with front discs taking the load.
Ref 'uh-oh' they, Vauxhall, probably looking for that !!

P

 

[AdamW]

Hmmm, that does sound feasible to me, although I don't have intimate knowledge of brakes. Although, the auto-adjusters had not been disabled, the mechanic today said they were just not wound on enough. Surely they would have wound on by themselves in the last few months?

But that would solve the whole mystery of Vauxhall not taking the wheels off yet the brakes still going rubbish. If they had loosened off the handbrake cable to spec, then as you say the excess play on the drums would no longer be taken up by the tension on the cable, presuming the independents had done this on the drums back in May.

Discs all round for my next car

To be honest, I can't understand why they made a rear-drum Astra. After all, most Mk. 4s had discs all round, surely discs are cheaper to fit (including factory labour) and when people see them they go "OOooh, discs all round, must be quick!".

 

[pipme]

good luck., it may only need the brake cable adjusting?

do you know the old trick of when parking on a slope park in gear, oposite to that of which you would go, so if pointing down , park in reverse

Breezer old son, if leaving in gear use reverse .. 'tis the lowest gear and hence the most difficult for wheels to turn engine !! think bicycle derailleur gears, or, for a turn of driven wheel there will be more piston pumps against compression than with any other gear- that's the stopper

 

[AdamW]

Alternatively drive an auto: they lock the tranny in Park mode anyway

Wonder why they never implemented that on manuals? Obviously would have to be either one "notch" on the shift pattern (with a 100% effective gate to stop you putting it in whilst on the move!) or a separate switch. But it would be a good idea. And it would make the whole transmission damage issue easier if someone crashes into your parked car: the tranny will definitely be absolutely FUBAR'd, so you will get a new one.

 

[AdamW]

Oh, and don't SAABs have to be in reverse before you can remove the ignition key?

I'm pretty sure 1st is normally a shorter ratio than reverse though. I used to religiously read the manuals and tech specs of the cars I got to drive. I seem to recall that they usually are ever so slightly longer in reverse than in first, that is the top speed is slightly higher.

 

[pipme]

Hmmm, that does sound feasible to me, although I don't have intimate knowledge of brakes. Although, the auto-adjusters had not been disabled, the mechanic today said they were just not wound on enough. Surely they would have wound on by themselves in the last few months?

But that would solve the whole mystery of Vauxhall not taking the wheels off yet the brakes still going rubbish. If they had loosened off the handbrake cable to spec, then as you say the excess play on the drums would no longer be taken up by the tension on the cable, presuming the independents had done this on the drums back in May.

Discs all round for my next car

To be honest, I can't understand why they made a rear-drum Astra. After all, most Mk. 4s had discs all round, surely discs are cheaper to fit (including factory labour) and when people see them they go "OOooh, discs all round, must be quick!".

Not us old schoolers !! That '..must be quick' is the first thought - we have second and more thoughts - sometimes !
Discs are so much easier to work with, besides the efficiency !! ( full, four wheel ABS with discs ).
I am pretty sure the dealer will look at your mileage and then takes some calculated risks, like not removing drums. I guess they generally know what does and what doesn't 'go' ... that is why it is a bit dodgy using more than one service agent !!
Watch out for the pedal 'lengthening' now, as it will if the adjusters do not work .. I bet they do now tho', since the Vaux guy has tinkered.

Down to experience old son ... move on .. don't let it fester, we have all been in the same position at some time or another and probably will be again !!
Road test the brakes - at least every month - better to know it's likely to dive one way or t'other under the big anchor when testing than in real emergency !!

P

 

[AdamW]

Well, to be honest with you I would sooner pay £44 and know my brakes are reliable than to have left them as they were and end up rear-ending someone, or rolling away in a car park.

I will be ensuring to fully test my brakes... perhaps a few handbrake turns in the car park next time I am at the supermarket will aid me in this testing

Will see if I can try a few emergency stops on my way home too.

when people see them they go "OOooh, discs all round, must be quick!".

I was thinking about the marketing aspect: certainly on mopeds this was used as a selling ploy when they started coming with F/R discs. "Race-inspired braking system"... just what you need to slow that beast down from... 25mph. I despair of the day they start fitting scooters with twin front discs like a motorbike! Although with the riding position and speed of a scooter, you would get more than a few complaints of thrown-over-the handlebars shennanigans.

 

[david and julie]

Unless you wind the adjusters on a bit first they don't work at all.

I would be suprised if you ever find the truth, to much time as passed really to come back on any of the garages.

To be honest when you told them you haven't used the handbrake for over 3 months they probably didn't believe you! most people use it every day!

If you fancy a new shape I would a try the likes of these

http://www.fow.co.uk/

New cars loose so much in the the first year. I got mine from here last month. Vauxhall wanted £14000+ brand new, I paid £9000 at 5 months and 6000 miles old. still 2 1/2 years warranty, RAC etc left.

New car depreciation is pathetic now, I would never buy another.

 

[pipme]

Wife will be driving French oil burner Renault semi van come Nov ... Now if you want to see a hand brake !!

Just thought, it has no key just a 'card' to insert, start engine- press button and literally move finger away .. how strange, engine starts on its own .. needs button press again to stop engine ... forgot to experiment with card removal whilst moving or even button pressing to stop engine, I wonder if it is all interlocked such that cannot stop engine unless vehicle is stationary ? Hand brake is auto lets itself off as you pull away .. I wonder if that Renault allegedly unable to stop with malfunctioning cruise control was a little more scary than we thought ... ooer !!

 

[AdamW]

Me and my mates hired a Renault Scenic when we did the Three Peaks challenge (didn't want to put 1200+ miles on our own cars!). That has the automatic handbrake. It seems like a gimmick to me, they could have made it really useful but instead did it all a bit half-a**ed. E.g. it should come on automatically if the car starts to move in the opposite direction to selected gear. That way if you are performing a hill start you can't roll backwards. All it would have taken is a few extra lines of code on the on-board computer.

Remember the Clio with no clutch pedal? Remember the Renault 25 which speaks at you? My mum has a Peugeot 206. It is nice to drive, and it tells you which door (if any) isn't shut properly. Yet it has a major design flaw: if you drive it in flip-flops your toe gets caught in the universal joint on the steering column. The Citroen suspension was a work of genius, but unfortunately when it went wrong it cost the earth to fix and required a unique oil. Thus a piece of engineering art died a gimmicky death. Why do they put so much effort into making their cars different instead of just making them work. After all, the majority of French-made cars just end up getting thrashed around the Peripherique anyway.

In terms of Renault diesels, my mate's got a 2002 Clio 1.5 diesel. 85bhp from a naturally aspirated 1.5 diesel: it is quiet and he gets 600 miles from a tank... I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the fact he gets twice the miles as me, FROM A SMALLER TANK! I have never driven it, but he enjoys it and they do a 100bhp turbocharged version now.

Will be keeping that FOW site in my Favourites: my Astra was £13K new, I got it 4 months old, 5K miles for £9K. Mainstream cars devalue so horrifically at first, you would have to be dead keen on new-car smell to buy one brand new! Even at 4 months mine still smelled new. I am so tempted to trade in and get a new car but I am determined to move house first. Must... keep... purse strings... tied... Must... not... buy... new... car... yet.

Of course there is nothing like the feel and smell of a brand new car. Yet I wouldn't have been able to forget that £9K would have bought a fairly basic Corsa, but for the same money I got an Astra with a decent level of kit: leccy windows, aircon, 8-speaker stereo, pearlescent paint, alloys, dodgy drum brakes , 5 cup holders (not including the ones in the glovebox).

 

[pipme]

....... dodgy drum brakes ........

Um, possible brakes are / would have been fine - if someone had not become a 'messer' !!
BTW .. when you know all is running well .. say 3k miles hence .. that is the time to look at the brake mechanisms .. then you know how things look when working correctly.

Scenic will be a useful scene shifter for the Uni run (final year eldest) youngest in 2 yrs time .. just right for the new fees !!! NOT !
Apparently if you really pull the handbrake lever it acts like a conventional handbrake
P

 

[AdamW]

There is a manual lever, it isn't the easiest of levers to find if you don't know where it is already: under the steering wheel to the right, a thing you pull outwards, a bit like the shooter thing on a pinball machine Like I said, a great idea but I can't understand why they didn't put some hill-start programming in it... they might have done since I was in a Scenic, worth trying it out.

I checked out the brakes properly last night, with moderate pressure (as in not standing on the pedal) it actually hurts. You know when you can feel the g-forces pulling on your eyes, on a rollercoaster? It's like that. I tried some emergency stops from 20-40mph and the wheels didn't lock once (despite no ABS). It felt like it could have stopped even quicker.

I really never understood why Vauxhall didn't use the handling ability of the Mk.4 Astra to help sell it: journalists went on and on about the Focus handling, which I thought whilst OK, was nothing special, yet with the Astra (which I find handles far better) I never heard the handling mentioned once. Even though the Mk2 Astra GTE is still renowned as the car most likely to land you in a farmer's field. Perhaps with the Mk4 the journos just read "Lotus-developed suspension" and decided it didn't need comment

I have driven around 30 Focuses, and 5 Astras (all but a couple were hire cars, ranging from brand new to 5000 miles). Mostly 1.6s but also a couple of SRi's. I found with the Focus you feel confident and it is quite safe and predictable if you get some slippage, but with the Astra I have never experienced any loss of control on corners or roundabouts. I have never found the limits because to go any faster than I have tried would be idiotic on the public roads!

 

[pipme]

Never forget ... diesel and wet road = near ice .... recently drove a back lane where some ar-e had laid quite a spillage over about 2.5 miles ... I had wheelspin, no traction from 25 in third ..... oooer ! glad to be free of that lot !!

Next test, just what can your handbrake do for you other than parking brake ? ... Forgetting the handbrake turn, it is nice to have a feel for what would happen if the foot pedal went to the floor... First off, never jam handbrake on .. if the reason for loss of footpedal should be fluid leak at one side of rear, with lining contamination then jacking handbrake on means very probable swerve to disaster, pivotting on the working side. Gently ease it on, if no directional effec,t then keep applying pressure, how far to stop car ? What sort of retardation - how does it feel ? Are the brakes quickly 'fading' ? All worth knowing and part of the street wise driver's tool kit !!

P

 

[AdamW]

Funny you said that about handbrakes: when I was 18 or so, still in that experimenting phase of driving (doing all the things you never saw other people do). I did try stopping from speed with the handbrake, tried it from speeds up to 60mph. Tried it with the throttle jammed open too (by keeping foot on accelerator). I must say it was very uneventful.

It is often said in motorbike magazines that you must always be sensible and courteous, even when "making progress" because if you p*ss someone off, they may take it out on the next biker. However you still get absolute morons who will race through villages with no thought for the residents or road safety. So locals have been known to spill diesel on corners to sabotage their antics. Unfortunately it is lethal even for sensible bikers (not to mention cars and cyclists too): I have read of at least one incident where a sensible lifelong biker broke his neck. Now it was very wrong for people to oil the corner, but perhaps they wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for the w**kers who think they would be good TT racers who burn round the countryside, giving all bikers a bad name.

Luckily my only experience of diesel is when some idiot had spilled diesel on a forecourt and I found all of a sudden that my front wheel had no say on my direction! I was only going about 2mph at the time and no harm came of it.