What exactly can I DIY without notifying buildings dept?

[ColJack]

which bizzare example are we talking about?

 

[jpdw]

which bizzare example are we talking about?

Oops (or stronger words)
Er.. The one I put on my original reply which I accidentally closed the window on before hitting Submit. It's not that relevant now though, but was related to the comment posted by saxendale about alterations not being notifiable.

 

[ColJack]

it depends on the nature of the alteration, and it's location..

if it's outdoors / in a kitchen / in a bath/shower room then it's notifiable..

if the alteration involves the changing of the circuit protective measures then it's notifiable..

 

[Softus]

OK, I was quoting the guidance notes that are contained in the Approved Document P, rather than the regulation listing itself, so apologies for not being specific enough with the quote.

BUT... The guidance notes do support the bizarre example I was trying to make - that extending a circuit is not "installation a new circuit" so according to the language of the guidance notes it does suggest non-notification.

You might be right (about the "guidance notes"), but I never rely on on them or refer to them, precisely because of the misinterpretations that arise.

saxondale appears to think that the Building Regulations aren't law. He's wrong.

saxondale implied that the Building Regulations are open to interpretation. They are indeed, but they contain very little ambiguity.

Looking back at the regulation itself, doesn't 2(c)(ii) cover my bizarre example?

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

I can't find the example to which you refer.

One thing that is clear is that the regulation is unclear to both the learned electricians

I don't agree. It's perfectly clear. Do you have an example of where "learned electricians" haven't agreed over an interpretation of the BRs?

...and to the subset of DIYers that both to try to understand it.

I don't agree. Do you have an example of a DIYer who has claimed to have read the BRs and not understood them?

 

[saxondale]

yer sorry it was late and i typed it wrong

building regs are law however


installing an outside light " when the cable exits the building and is terminated directly and fully enclosed in the fitting, on the fabric of the said building......" is not outside and not notifiable


or are you saying I`m breaking the law every bellbox fit ?

 

[saxondale]

building reg 2B a - replacing fixed equipment along with new wiring doesnt mean moving a socket or a light switch it means you cant fit a new shower / water heater / storage heater etc (even if you do upgrade the cable) not - that you simply cannot re-site existing equipment without notifying

and this is clarified later by the list of " fixed equipment.." you are allowed to work on









were in a grey area between DIY`er and pro sparks in our trade so maybe our guidance notes are a bit clearer than you guys get

 

[dully]

i am fitting a new kitchen galley type,but on the cooker side, from the ceiling comes a 6mm cable buried in the wall in a little square junction box stops at head height. must have gone into a 45 amp cooker point at one stage, it is live. but i dont like the idea cos, the consumer unit in the under stair cupboard 3mtrs away and is also in the kitchen.please can you tell me if i can run a new 30amp d/pole switch for a range also needed is a fcu for the ignition but at each side of the range ive fitted 2 d/power/points in this run of 2.6mtrs i also need a fridge fcu and extractor fcu but cos i want a stainless steel complete 2.6m splash back i dont want to have them all on show. can i fit them another way and just leave the p[ower points showing. thankyou .dully.

 

[jpdw]

OK, I was quoting the guidance notes that are contained in the Approved Document P, rather than the regulation listing itself, so apologies for not being specific enough with the quote.

BUT... The guidance notes do support the bizarre example I was trying to make - that extending a circuit is not "installation a new circuit" so according to the language of the guidance notes it does suggest non-notification.

You might be right (about the "guidance notes"), but I never rely on on them or refer to them, precisely because of the misinterpretations that arise.

saxondale appears to think that the Building Regulations aren't law. He's wrong.

saxondale implied that the Building Regulations are open to interpretation. They are indeed, but they contain very little ambiguity.

Looking back at the regulation itself, doesn't 2(c)(ii) cover my bizarre example?

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit;

I can't find the example to which you refer.

as I put above, I had "user issues" (it was late) and then forgot it when I retyped my posting. I wont post it here/now to avoid further hi-jacking of the OP's thread.

One thing that is clear is that the regulation is unclear to both the learned electricians

I don't agree. It's perfectly clear. Do you have an example of where "learned electricians" haven't agreed over an interpretation of the BRs?

There are quite a few threads where individual notify/not notify gets depated - and quite often it seems those debating either side are the pros.
Maybe just an impression I got.

 

[Softus]

are you saying I`m breaking the law every bellbox fit ?

If you don't know whether or not you're breaking the law in the course of the work that you do, then I recommend that you take professional legal advice before doing any more of it.

 

[Softus]

I can't find the example to which you refer.

as I put above, I had "user issues" (it was late) and then forgot it when I retyped my posting. I wont post it here/now to avoid further hi-jacking of the OP's thread.

OK. In that case I have option but to say that your question can't be answered.

One thing that is clear is that the regulation is unclear to both the learned electricians

I don't agree. It's perfectly clear. Do you have an example of where "learned electricians" haven't agreed over an interpretation of the BRs?

There are quite a few threads where individual notify/not notify gets depated - and quite often it seems those debating either side are the pros.
Maybe just an impression I got.

It would be easier to comment on that impression if you would give an example of such a topic. It's possible that the people debating such a point are not all professionals. It's also possible that some professionals don't actually read the Building Regulations.

As with most members of the general public, there seems to be an in-built resistance to actually looking at the text of the legislation, and instead there's a tendency to rely on the guidance document being correct. The problem with that reliance is that it isn't correct.

 

[jpdw]

I can't find the example to which you refer.

as I put above, I had "user issues" (it was late) and then forgot it when I retyped my posting. I wont post it here/now to avoid further hi-jacking of the OP's thread.

OK. In that case I have option but to say that your question can't be answered.

No probs... and thank you for wanting to answer it. Maybe another day...

One thing that is clear is that the regulation is unclear to both the learned electricians

I don't agree. It's perfectly clear. Do you have an example of where "learned electricians" haven't agreed over an interpretation of the BRs?

There are quite a few threads where individual notify/not notify gets depated - and quite often it seems those debating either side are the pros.
Maybe just an impression I got.

It would be easier to comment on that impression if you would give an example of such a topic. It's possible that the people debating such a point are not all professionals. It's also possible that some professionals don't actually read the Building Regulations.
[/quote]
Yes, true, sometimes I think it would be useful on diynot for it to be visible (in a sig for instance) if someone is a professional or just a DIYer.. But that could get silly with umpteen classifications and anyway people might not want to have their status on show. I usually add someowhere that I'm a DIY although I'm certain often its pretty clear with what I put!

The first comments above about the OPs garage PIR might be one such example . I'm not having a go at anyone in saying there are differing opinions even amongst those of you that do this stuff day in /out.

Anyway, I think we've done this one to death for the while.

 

[saxondale]

are you saying I`m breaking the law every bellbox fit ?

If you don't know whether or not you're breaking the law in the course of the work that you do, then I recommend that you take professional legal advice before doing any more of it.

exactly you fool (lol) - where do you think I`m quoting guidance notes from, and why I`m so sure you dont need to notify the things I`m saying you don`t........? its because I`m doing this day in day out thats how

 

[Softus]

If you don't know whether or not you're breaking the law in the course of the work that you do, then I recommend that you take professional legal advice before doing any more of it.

where do you think I`m quoting guidance notes from

Oh I dunno - from themselves perhaps?

...and why I`m so sure you dont need to notify the things I`m saying you don`t........?

Ooh, ooh, I know this one - it's because you're wrong. But don't feel bad - you're good at it.

That its because I`m doing this day in day out thats how

And Harold Shipman killed old ladies, day in, day out.

 

[saxondale]

If you don't know whether or not you're breaking the law in the course of the work that you do, then I recommend that you take professional legal advice before doing any more of it.

where do you think I`m quoting guidance notes from

Oh I dunno - from themselves perhaps?

...and why I`m so sure you dont need to notify the things I`m saying you don`t........?

Ooh, ooh, I know this one - it's because you're wrong.

That its because I`m doing this day in day out thats how

And Harold Shipman killed old ladies day in, day out.

nah your just not listening to me - we have guidance from our trade regulators and assesers sumed up as " additions, alterations and extensions do not need notifying unless in a special location and fixed to the outside of a dwelling isnt a special location...."

I wasnt opening that guidance up for debate, just explaining where I got my quotes from

were assesed every 6 months, plenty of time for any non compliances to have been flagged up by now

as I`ve said before - theres more than niciec etc

 

[Softus]

we have guidance from our trade regulators and assesers sumed up as " additions, alterations and extensions do not need notifying unless in a special location and fixed to the outside of a dwelling isnt a special location...."

That's nice. I trust that your insurance covers you for breaking the law when your excuse is no better than "someone else said it was right".

were assesed every 6 months, plenty of time for any non compliances to have been flagged up by now

as I`ve said before - theres more than niciec etc

Two excellent examples of Things That Aren't The Slightest Bit Relevant to the question in hand.

Whether or not you choose to debate it doesn't really matter. You can hide your hand in the sand, but it won't make you right.