What type of fire for plain chimney .. after back boiler removed

[wbmkk]

We currently have an old Baxi wall mounted gas fire in the lounge, which previously had a back boiler behind it. The fire has provided great service over the years but it is now time to go.

My wife got a brochure from a local fire installer and decided she likes the Rocco fire, from the Flavel brochure. I see this needs a balanced flue for optimum efficiency. I think we just have the old brick type chimney (like the ones Santa comes down) .. there is no liner.

I know we can call our gas installer chap, but before getting him it's nice to know some background facts first. Can a balanced flue be fitted through an old brick chimney and is it essential. For that fire, the maximum heat output with the BF is 5.5kW but without a BF it's only 4.2kW. I know the efficiency is the same, but more heat is always better (in my opinion) So I suppose you need to weigh up the extra cost of a BF with the extra heat.

thank you

 

[FiremanT]

The efficiency will not be the same, although the output may be.
A BF could be fitted through a chimney breast but there will be a maximum flue length.

It is important that the chimney opening is clean (soot will corrode the flue) and the entry to the flue from the builders opening is blocked off.

 

[Gasguru]

The fire manufacturers often won't tell you but a balanced flue fire is considerably safer than an open flued version.

 

[andytw]

We have just removed a Baxi back boiler and gas fire. I fitted a Gazco Logic2 Electric fire.

 

[wbmkk]

We have just removed a Baxi back boiler and gas fire. I fitted a Gazco Logic2 Electric fire.

Just as a matter of interest, why did your client opt for electric when there is obviously gas already present ?

We have never really thought about an electric fire .. Aren't they much more costly to run ?

 

[Hot&Cold]

We currently have an old Baxi wall mounted gas fire in the lounge, which previously had a back boiler behind it.

is the back boiler still in position

 

[andytw]

Just as a matter of interest, why did your client opt for electric when there is obviously gas already present ?

We have never really thought about an electric fire .. Aren't they much more costly to run ?

It was my own in a property that I rent out.
I had to remove the back boiler and fire which were on LPG to get the EPC up to a D so the property could be rented.
New rules from April 2018
Heating is still LPG but from a condensing combi boiler.
Electric fire was a better bet in our case with regard to keeping the EPC as high as possible.
EPC was E and is now D

Just thought I would throw it in as a option.

 

[wbmkk]

is the back boiler still in position

The boiler was removed quite a few years ago, when a combi boiler was fitted. the fire worked OK and there was no real need to change it.

 

[Gasguru]

Allowing for a typical high efficiency gas fire of say 80% (versus an electric fire at 100%) the electric fire will cost you around 3 times as much to run (say 13p Kw elec and 3.5p Kw gas).

 

[ericmark]

There are two types of flue, open and closed, with a closed flue combustion air is drawn from outside, with an open flue combustion air is drawn from inside the house. The balanced flue is closed.

There are many fuels, electric is easy, and gas and oil can be auto switched off, so also reasonable easy, charcoal and coke have a delayed switch off but with no back boiler not really a problem.

Coal and wood is really a problem, in order to stop particular emissions it needs a duel burn, also a set output, so as sole heater you really need back boiler to work within the rules.

And with open flue any extractor fan, bathroom, kitchen hob, tumble drier can draw fumes into the home.

However when the fire is for ambiance and not the main heater, in real terms it does not matter, it is what you want to see, I use a gas fire, I say use, it goes on once in a blue moon, emergency in case of electric power cut, and that is about all, maybe if we have been out of the house and turned central heating off and want a quick warm up.

To light a coal fire once a year at Christmas your not worried about emissions, however you are worried about drafts, closed flutes do not cause drafts, but without a draft the house can get damp and stuffy.

In my first house we had power cuts all the time, so second house careful to get one where we could use gas without electric, but did not get power cuts so hardly ever used.

You need to look at house design, can't have a flue into next door, but also rules on how close to windows.

So main question is what is the fire for?

 

[McCombi]

Didn’t think you could leave a firefront that was part of a back boiler in situ if whole boiler and flue liner has been removed?

 

[FiremanT]

The boiler was removed quite a few years ago, when a combi boiler was fitted. the fire worked OK and there was no real need to change it.

Didn’t think you could leave a firefront that was part of a back boiler in situ if whole boiler and flue liner has been removed?

Absolutely correct McC.

OP: Hopefully you are ripping out, but if you have the original fire and the BBU is physically removed, then your fitters have got it wrong.

 

[durhamplumber]

back boiler must still be in if the fire has been used...or the fluing has been an utter jury rigged caper

 

[FiremanT]

back boiler must still be in if the fire has been used...or the fluing has been an utter jury rigged caper

You should know by now that anything is possible.

A few years back, I went to an electric fire. It had to be electric as (amongst other issues) the flue was simply an 8" cast iron pipe that had been damaged when the liner was fitted many moons ago. I was to remove the BBU and fire, and install a surround , hearth etc

The guy that fitted the new condensing boiler actually left the boiler in position. But still connected to the circuit!! Fortunately my 6th sense (and awareness of the installer) kicked in, and I proceeded as if it was still connected, rather than just chopping out.

If you are reading this, you will now know who I am.