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EddieM
On my frequent trips to good wood
I think the rarest car I have seen there was a fully restored
Morris marina
Did they then drop a piano on it so that it looked like it had just rolled off the production line. Hateful "car"
Where did the British car industry go wrong?
- Thread starter fillyboy
- Start date
Did they then drop a piano on it so that it looked like it had just rolled off the production line. Hateful "car"
Both comments pure fiction. One of the aspects of working in places that employ 100's is car parks with plenty in them and breakdowns and problems get heard about. I only ever bought well used cars as couldn't afford anything else. Management got the new stuff. One thing that lot never did was have them serviced. Many others didn't either. There were 2 problems. Accurate mileage readings - that went on for a very long time even on imports and then rust. The Japanese had a big advantage on rust as they mostly used reprocessed steel as had none themselves. We got fresh stuff with rust rolled into the sheet and didn't protect them much anyway - much the same all over, even the USA.
Actually if some one could afford to run it a well used Jag was a rather solid used car to buy. Buying it was a bit of a struggle as well is much dearer than others. Don't confuse these with what were essentially Fords. Rover reliability went t#ts around the Ford/Jag point and didn't really recover when they shifted more to 4x4s.
Actually imports from Europe in this time period didn't take off. Few around and people saying they were wonderful but just as many problems in practice - worse in some cases particularly from France. Wear and tear on used cars. All sorts need replacing at some point and some have built in problems. The Japs changed the picture a lot. Slowly at first as the press saw them as a joke. Just like they have see some makes more recently. Regarded as disposable when they aren't. No 2nd hand value at all in this case. That has changed rapidly in recent years. Japanese initially were seen as too cheap for what they came with - too advanced in some respects. I bought an early one out of curiosity, 5 speed gearbox, twin choke carburation, decent ride and performance - it could shock similar models from other makers in that respect. No why didn't you buy British as there was so few around. I bought a Celica some years later, the rounded one. A directors asked me about it Velly Reliable etc. I said no, curiosity, engine sorted by Holby and suspension by Lotus. He was annoyed - it went why don't our lot do something like that because they easily could.
I was forgiven. I started running a Lotus not long after. Stands for Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious but this one used a Japanese engine that wasn't cheaply tuned up. The Europa I ran much earlier was an entirely different kettle of fish. Renault engine rather than the Ford based twin cam. The engine was so good at cracking pistons I swapped it for another version of the Renault engine, cross flow. It just used a different head. It was quicker to 60 than the twin can version more or less as it came.Both comments pure fiction. One of the aspects of working in places that employ 100's is car parks with plenty in them and breakdowns and problems get heard about. I only ever bought well used cars as couldn't afford anything else. Management got the new stuff. One thing that lot never did was have them serviced. Many others didn't either. There were 2 problems. Accurate mileage readings - that went on for a very long time even on imports and then rust. The Japanese had a big advantage on rust as they mostly used reprocessed steel as had none themselves. We got fresh stuff with rust rolled into the sheet and didn't protect them much anyway - much the same all over, even the USA.
Actually if some one could afford to run it a well used Jag was a rather solid used car to buy. Buying it was a bit of a struggle as well as much dearer than others. Don't confuse these with what were essentially Fords. Rover reliability went t#ts around the Ford/Jag point and didn't really recover when they shifted more to 4x4s. Nisan did them a decent car and those sold well.
Actually imports from Europe in this time period didn't take off. Few around and people saying they were wonderful but just as many problems in practice - worse in some cases particularly from France. Wear and tear on used cars. All sorts need replacing at some point and some have built in problems. The Japs changed the picture a lot. Slowly at first as the press saw them as a joke. Just like they have seen some makes more recently. Regarded as disposable when they aren't. No 2nd hand value at all in this case. That has changed rapidly in recent years. Japanese initially were seen as too cheap for what they came with - too advanced in some respects. I bought an early one out of curiosity, 5 speed gearbox, twin choke carburation, decent ride and performance - it could shock similar models from other makers in that respect. No why didn't you buy British as there was so few around. I bought a Celica some years later, the rounded one. A directors asked me about it Velly Reliable etc. I said no, curiosity, engine sorted by Holby and suspension by Lotus. He was annoyed - it went why don't our lot do something like that because they easily could.
I was forgiven. I started running a Lotus not long after. Stands for Loads Of Trouble Usually Serious but this one used a Japanese engine that wasn't cheaply tuned up. The Europa I ran much earlier was an entirely different kettle of fish. Renault engine rather than the Ford based twin cam. The engine was so good at cracking pistons I swapped it for another version of the Renault engine, cross flow. It just used a different head. It was quicker to 60 than the twin can version more or less as it came.
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EddieM
don't know what if anything Ford had to do with Jaguar in the 70's & 80's as they were busy building their own rubbish. Jags from that era were rubbish, take the XJS. Lovely car in theory, ruined by poor build quality and lousy reliability.
True they didn't but when they did they had to stick with Fords parts trolley and chrome specs. Ford didn't help with any make they were involved with.
The V12 cars were problematic - too much heat under the bonnet and not many sold anyway. My father in law had a Daimler Double 6. 4mpg on a good day and starter motor broke. LOL Ok apart from that. He was retired and used to be pretty rich, cars like that from new don't help remain rich. He was fooled like many and bought a Vauxhall Senator assuming it was British. He gave it me and I used it for a while. He replaced it with a Grenada as he liked the look of them. I sorted him out a good used one. First 2nd hand car he bought in his entire life. He drove well before many could afford it.
To be honest I don't see these as Jags and the V12's were a mistake. They had a go at the Rolls level market once. The MK X. Car wise it succeeded but lacked the name but more like a drivers car like a Bentley really. As always the high end was aimed at America.
The E types are interesting. The 3.8's would do 150mph. The early short wheel based 4.2's would nearly but a tiny amount of work on the engine would push them a bit past 150. Emissions reduced performance and in many respects the V12's were the worst of the lot finishing up at 125 maybe. I was reckoned a few early ones did to 150. Type approval ended them and many others,
Investment was a big problem all over manufacture in the UK. Lack of it. It's a lot easier to import. All that is needed is a warehouse and a few people. That explains a lot actually also investment moving out of the UK as stuff could be made cheaper elsewhere. Not by much in many cases but profit is profit. As it goes the infrastructure and suppliers needed go with it as well and things finish up with the Dyson problem - importing so much may as well be made there as well. Things these days need a global market to make it worth developing it and then buying equipment to make it - that aspect has huge bells on it in the car area. There was no interest in putting money into it. Toyota though - tiny company initially and at one stage the biggest in the world. Ford couldn't stand that so bought all sorts up and got their fingers burnt. GM did too. Japanese banks were prepared to put loads into manufacture.
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EddieM
I drive a Jag / Ford hybrid. The engine is from the 2.5 Ford Cougar (anyone remember them?) The engine is actually decent, though suffers from persistent coolant leaks. The gearbox is another matter, again a Ford, it is truly lousy. The rest is Jag,I think and has thus far been reliable.
Jags now are miles apart and are very capable vehicles, just a shame they can't make any money on them.
I think the most bulletproof car I ever owned was a Vauxhall cavalier, ok it did nothing particularly well, but boy, it was unstoppable mechanically.
Jags now are miles apart and are very capable vehicles, just a shame they can't make any money on them.
I think the most bulletproof car I ever owned was a Vauxhall cavalier, ok it did nothing particularly well, but boy, it was unstoppable mechanically.
Yes, you're right. I think it would be more accurate to say that Honada and BL/AR collaborated on the design of cars such as the Acclaim and Rover 2, 4 and 8 series.
The Triumph Acclaim didn't just have a Honda engine, the whole car was basically a re-badged Honda Ballade. Having owned both a Dolomite and 2000, the Acclaim was a bit of a shock to the system. Couldn't see the point of buying a Jap car with Triumph badge on it. Not a car I would want to own, no matter how reliable it was.
As for BMW, they did actually own Rover.
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EddieM
Bit unfortunate the Triumph Acclaim as you could translate that to Sieg Heil in German.
Doesn't having a 2.5 (petrol, I presume?) negate the benefit of it being a hybrid?
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EddieM
Sorry, poor choice of words, it's a pure ICE car. By hybrid in this context I mean a mix of Ford n Jag parts.
I'm on my second Carlton now. The old, square ones not the later jelly mould. First was a 1981(X), and the current one is the very last of the old shape 1986(D). Like the Cavalier, these cars are tough as old boots. The first one was very simple design, rear wheel drive, 4 cylinder 2000cc with GM Varijet carb. As simple and conventional as it gets and totally reliable. Rust got it after 21 years, but the one I have now has been garaged all it's life and is a low mileage with only 2 previous owners. Very underrated cars.
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EddieM
Always fancied on of those Lotus Carltons, good for 180 MPH allegedly.
And with the right (inexpensive) tools you could change the overhead cam in half an hour or the clutch in 20 minutes.
For sure, I never had much joy with Lucas parts.....distributor caps with no central pickup, rotor arms falling apart, dodgy starters when new and poor quality ACR alternators 
John
John
That would be the Lotus Carlton.
